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If he tries to play through his fatigue, it seems to me he would be more likely to be injured.
I said earlier I have no idea what could realistically be done about it this season.
Now you're moving away from a discussion of what has happened, and what is likely to happen to what you think should happen. You know, exactly what you warned Fuzzy away from.
If he tries to play through his fatigue, it seems to me he would be more likely to be injured.
I said earlier I have no idea what could realistically be done about it this season.
The goods tbh.
For the last part, I'd say it's a way of coping with the fact that a player who we think has the potential to do some damage for us is most likely going to be on the bench in favour of Bonner and Blair and now Diaw.
At this point it's not just us because fans of other teams are starting to take notice of the fact that Splitter is better than both Bonner and Blair.
Pop is an incredibly good coach who has helped bring a lot of success to the Spurs. I think people are just really reluctant to admit that he could be making an obvious mistake that will cost the Spurs a championship unless he gets lucky. So there's that.
Then there's people like Mel_13 who, I think, are more concerned about his injury history and conditioning. That's a fair point but I'm of the opinion that fooling around with his minutes will make him more likely to get hurt.
I'm inclined to agree with you that Pop just doesn't think he's that good. I'm confident that he would've found a way to give him more minutes otherwise.
The fact that he does a lot of defending and offensive work for the bench is a step in the right direction (much better than last season), but by using Splitter this way I just don't think Pop is making the most of his abilities.
He wouldn't do something like that unless he just didn't think Tiago was all that good of a player. Compared to Robinson and prime Tim Duncan I would agree with his "unskilled" comments but on this team with these players I think Pop is underestimating him.
Also don't really agree with this. Splitter really isn't proven. Based on Pop's comments, he doesn't see Tiago as the skilled player many of us do. So he has not proven himself to Pop as Pop still doesn't really know what he has in Tiago. Also, Pop has also said that he really doesn't know what he has in Tiago due to his injuries (which is totally bs IMO) & you yourself admitted you don't know Tiago's ceiling and what can be realistically expected from him so in that regard he is not proven.
Why would someone like Diaw or other bench guys need to prove themselves if in the playoffs depth is less important? At this point isn't getting your playoff rotation minutes the important thing? Why place importance on getting guys minutes that likely won't be playing much when it matters this deep into the season heading into the playoffs?
I'd say Splitter is more injury prone, especially if you adjust for age. When Manu gets hurt, it's almost always a mechanical type injury like a broken bone or a sprained ankle. Splitter, on the other hand, is more prone to get muscle pulls, muscle spasms, muscle strains and the like.
*knocks on wood* Splitter has avoided major injuries in his career but in his history, he has dealt with a ton of nagging injuries ... whether it be in Spain, with his NT or with the Spurs. Ginobili isn't really the nagging injury type. The closest I can remember is that oblique injury but even that was caused by a specific action, tbh.
With the team's limited size up front, I'm sure Pop wants a big out there as much as possible. Playing Splitter extended minutes would mean extended minutes of Diaw/Blair/Bonner (more complaints), or playing Duncan fewer minutes (not going to happen outside of a blowout).
Keeping him healthy is important as well.
"Tiago is to injury prone to play more minutes." "Tiago can't physically handle more minutes." If this is true Pop should still prepare a Duncan/Tiago lineup. Play them together 5 mpg at least and sometimes more. If Pop plays Tiago with Duncan in the playoffs I will be both happy and pissed at the same time.
How so. I'm stating simply fact:
Tiago didn't get many minutes last year in the regular season or playoffs.
Tiago started this season having his minutes appearing to be inversely related to Tim's except for recently when blowouts happen, Tiago doesn't absorb the majority of minutes Tim gives up. He's minutes stay consistent.
You're overestimating what can be accomplished in meaningless blowout minutes. Splitter isn't going to prove anything to Pop when the Spurs are up by 30 against a bad team. On the other hand, those minutes are valuable to players like Diaw and Mills because they are still getting adjusted to the system.
By your reasoning, Pop should just playing his regular rotation regardless of score ... which obviously doesn't make any sense.
Let's wait until these Lakers and Grizzlies games before we sound the Splitter panic alarm, tbh.
I attended the last FIBA Americas tournament in Mar del Plata, Argentina. I watched a lot of games and saw Tiago lvie in action 4 times.
One thing I noticed is that he isn't used in the pick 'n' roll that much when playing with his national team. Most of the time he was in the low post with his back to the basket and only on rare ocassions he left the paint to set a pick. Back when he played in Spain, he ran the p & r but not as much as with the Spurs.
Another factor could be his body not adapting to an NBA season yet. In Europe, when playing for club in the most sucessful and deep run season, players don't log more than 70 games (40 minutes per game max). Add to that his National Team play in the summer.
On the other hand, this season with the lockout most players didn't have a normal preaseason conditioning. So even if it is a shorter regular season, games are compressed in the schedule, and some players are natural athletes who are in top notch condition no matter what while others struggle if they didn't went through a good preseason regime.
No, I'm saying bottom line is if in close games Tiago isn't getting minutes and blowouts Tiago isn't getting minutes, when can you expect him to get minutes and/or improve his conditioning if that is a real problem?
Again, I don't why seeing what happens with 12 games to go until the playoffs would shed a lot more light (meaning reasonable expectations) when we have all of last year and this year as a sample?
I think this season's individual potential is fairly well known by now, given his effectiveness in the pick and roll, his relative ineffectiveness doing almost anything else and apparent fatigue issues. The main question is how he might play with Duncan.
Blowouts he pulls himself out of?
Good question.
That was one game, Chump. Agreed that you don't know if Pop was going to give him more minutes than normal had he not asked to come out, but that is not the norm and we've seen Pop not play Tiago when things appeared to be ok (meaning Tiago not asking to come out) way more than we've seen Tiago asked to be pulled (one time).
Any chance Pop is giving Splitter minimal minutes to reduce the amount of tape from which other teams could develop a game plan on him? We joke a lot about CIA Pop, but maybe there is a little "secret weapon" strategy to this maneuver? Keep him a relative unknown this season, especially with the new team members creating a completely new dynamic to how you could use him, and then throw him out there in the playoffs to really stack the decks in our favor.
I had the same "hidden playoff rotations" theory last season, and it didn't materialize, but maybe after the Memphis series things have changed.
We don't know what the norm is. We just happened to have LJ catch this particular instance.
I see. So maybe it's not the minutes he's playing so much as the style then.
I remember earlier this season that Sean was suggesting the Spurs run a few post-up plays to prevent Tiago from getting tired setting picks for everybody and running the pick and roll (You'd swear that guy is a member of the church tbh).
That would explain the fatigue and the muscle strains then because that would mean he'd have been playing more total minutes than he ever did in Europe/with Brazil (Thanks Mel) and he would've been doing so while playing a significantly more taxing style (Thanks MMLH).
It's all making sense to me now.
That may be the case, but it would be incredibly risky to all of the sudden thrust a player into way more minutes in the playoffs. Also, players just can go from having minutes regulated to playing 40+ a night which is another reason managing minutes can bite you in the playoffs when you need your big guns for longer periods (unless you plan to keep a longer rotation in the playoffs).
To be quite clear, that is not my position.
I responded in this thread and others to the contention, broadly stated, that Tiago can play much more than 18-20 mpg because he has done so in the past. In fact, all the available evidence points to two irrefutable conclusions:
1. He has not played more minutes per game than he has this season over any period of time, or under any conditions, that even remotely resemble this condensed season.
2. He played more games and more minutes from opening night until the Clipper game where he suffered the calf injury, (and not just a little bit more, but nearly double the number of games and minutes) than he had ever played in a similar period of time in his entire career. Since this period of extended play has been followed by two of the nagging injuries that he has been susceptible to in his career, I find suggestions that even more minutes would have had happy results to be completely unsupported by the facts.
IMO, Pop pushed the envelope wrt Tiago's minutes while using him in a clearly defined role in which the player flourished and the team reaped the benefit of that fine play. If not for time lost to the nagging injuries, Tiago would have approached a career high for minutes played in a season before the playoffs even started. And that's in a 4 month season compared to a 7-8 month season.
Frankly, I don't understand how those simple facts are ignored...
Last year is irrelevant.
This year, Tiago has had a clearly defined role from opening night.
Didn't manu reveal to the media he was dealing with nagging injuries after the.08 season, which is supposedly why he played like crap against the lakers.
People are acting like Tiago has missed months due to injury, I don't get it. Plenty of people miss more games than Tiago without getting the injury prone label.
Seriously I rewatched the game and Diaw did good defensively, he was put on Kaman AND Landry (for some reason Pop plays him at center half the time), the two hardest covers basically and he more than held his own, he's also easily one of the best help defender.
And he also did that :
Not the first time he stops a fastbreak while being outnumbered btw.
Yes I'm CoD if you had any doubt left.
I don't see how it's irrelevant when it pertains to comments and perceptions from the actual coach who dictates his minutes.
His role seems to be clearly defined except for when we though his minutes were inversely related to Tim's and that didn't hold true in several games (meaning Tim sat out for whatever reason and Tiago's minutes remained steady or decreased).
Everyone mentioning injuries says they are of the nagging variety. This season isn't much different from the others. He certainly seems prone to nagging injuries.
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