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  1. #1876
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure you can't initiate the violence (throw the first punch) and then claim self defense.

    I'm also pretty confident that this is the special prosecutors dilemma.

    It seems from the evidence that has been made public that Martin may have initiated the violence which then justifies Zimmerman's self defense claim.

    if she can't find any evidence that Zimmerman initiated the violence then she is right not to charge him.
    I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.
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  2. #1877
    Veteran cantthinkofanything's Avatar
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    I actually have shot on both land & water with either hand but I was following cantthinkofanything lead & posting jibberish…S&W does not make a .27 or .19 caliber and I am pretty sure that Glock does not make a .19 caliber assault pistol…
    I'll give it a rest after this but your pic above made me think of this.

    http://dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=84
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  3. #1878
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    are you predicting the DOJ will lodge politically convenient civil rights charges before the election this year? before local justice runs its course?

    I have one question for you, CC: how much you wanna bet?
    Please read what I wrote before you pounce.

    I said they would do it after Florida no billed him (justice runs it's course and they realize they don't have enough evidence to charge him)
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  4. #1879
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Yeah, If Florida no bills him Holders justice department will probably charge him with violating Martins civil rights. It's just too juicy of a political issue not to with Obama running for re-election..
    I don't know. When you've lost Al Sharpton on the "Get Whitey" parade, you may not have much of a case.

    Anyone else notice Al Sharpton's pretty much moved on to other things? Two weeks ago, he was going to "Occupy" Sanford until Zimmerman was arrested -- even if it meant being there through Easter.

    He celebrated Easter in Harlem.

    This case is fast losing it "racial" factor.
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  5. #1880
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.
    Proof Zimmerman initiated the assault is equally absent.
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  6. #1881
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.


    OK

    There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

    Would you at least accept THAT?
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  7. #1882
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    OK

    There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

    Would you at least accept THAT?
    What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?
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  8. #1883
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?
    What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.
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  9. #1884
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.
    if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..
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  10. #1885
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..
    Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

    Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.
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  11. #1886
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.
    Zimmerman wasn't a cop. He doesn't have the right to stop someone if they broke into a neighbor's home. The only thing he would be obligated to do is call the cops, and they would say "do not go outside". So someone following you, you feeling threatened, cannot respond?
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  12. #1887
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    OK

    There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

    Would you at least accept THAT?
    The fact that he was getting his ass kicked, yes, but then again eye witness testimony is so unreliable and has been proven to be so many times. And there was also been some information that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, allegedly that is since, well he is dead now and can't tell his side of the story.
    I see Zimmerman not getting charged or if he he won't serve any time. Just a bad case of judgement on both parts but I still put more of the blame on Zimmerman for if he had simply waited for the police all this could have been avoided.
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  13. #1888
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

    Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.
    The only dumbass is Zimmerman for trying to play hero.
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  14. #1889
    Complete player hitmanyr2k's Avatar
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    Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

    Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.
    Nah, just one dumbass who thought he was Neighborhood Rambo. If he just minds his own business instead of playing cop none of this happens. The kid basically got shot and killed for walking down the street.
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  15. #1890
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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    Can't wait to hear what new information Angela Corey has regarding the case. With zimmer 's attorney's stepping down and him not responding to their calls this can only mean good news for the Martin family
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  16. #1891
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Zimmerman disappearing looks even more su ious.
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  17. #1892
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..
    Do you think dispatchers are the po po?
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  18. #1893
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    OK

    There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

    Would you at least accept THAT?
    CosmicCowboy, no one witnessed the initiation of aggression.

    But, whatever the case, it is apparent to eyewitnesses that he was getting the snot beat out of him prior to Martin being shot.

    I think that's why Florida authorities did not arrest; physical injuries to George Zimmerman and the absence of physical injuries to Trayvon Martin (other than the fatal gunshot wound) supported either any version of events that would all George Zimmerman to use deadly force under Florida law.

    My personal belief -- based on the length and content of the 911 call between Zimmeman and the dispatcher, the public statements of the girlfriend claiming to have been on the phone with Martin when the altercation began, and the layout of the gated community (along with a pretty good description of where, in the community, the shooting occurred) -- is that Zimmerman, after hanging up on the 911 call, was in the area where the shooting would eventually take place when Trayvon Martin confronted him. I think Martin startled and Zimmerman either turned to retreat or perhaps, depending on how close and menacing Martin was when he confronted him, shoved Martin so he could retreat.

    I honestly believe any scenario that makes George Zimmerman the aggressor also has him making Martin aware he is armed -- and, it has Martin's girlfriend claiming Zimmerman 1) spoke first and 2) said something a bit more provocative that, "what are you doing here?" Neither of which appears to be the case.

    But, that's just my opinion.

    I do think the Special Prosecutor's 72-hour lead and refusal to declare a press conference location more than 3 hours beforehand, because of security concerns, does imply the information will be unpopular to those most likely to react to the information violently.
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  19. #1894
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Do you think dispatchers are the po po?
    the dispatchers speak on behalf of the po pop..are you playing stupid again?
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  20. #1895
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The only dumbass is Zimmerman for trying to play hero.
    Martin attacking an armed guy with his fists was a pretty dumbass move as well. and if you want to make the argument that he didn't know he was armed then he was a dumbass for not assuming he was armed, so yeah, two dumbasses met with tragic consequences.
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  21. #1896
    Bosshog in the cut djohn2oo8's Avatar
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    Martin attacking an armed guy with his fists was a pretty dumbass move as well. and if you want to make the argument that he didn't know he was armed then he was a dumbass for not assuming he was armed, so yeah, two dumbasses met with tragic consequences.
    You're looking pretty stupid right now. Zimmerman brought the gun, initiated and escalated the situation. You're blaming Martin for Zimmerman being a pussy.
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  22. #1897
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..
    There's no indication he didn't listen to the dispatcher.

    In fact, when I listen to the 911 call, he responded "Ok," after which he whined about how "they always get away." He then proceeded to try and get a good address to which the police could respond.

    It doesn't sound like he's running -- even after he exclaims, " , he's running!" Even there, it only sounds like he's walking fast.

    That leads me back to my earlier question. How in the did he catch up with Trayvon Martin while being a bit on the pudgy side, talking on the phone, complaining about the ing cold, and looking for an address for the police?
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  23. #1898
    Believe.
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    What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.
    It does if he felt threatened. Dude had a gun.
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  24. #1899
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    the dispatchers speak on behalf of the po pop..are you playing stupid again?
    You're right but, their words don't carry the force of a police command.

    Besides, all the dispatcher said is, "You don't need to do that." Not quite an explicit order.
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  25. #1900
    U Have Bad Understanding Sportcamper's Avatar
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    Well, if you're inferring the feds will drum up some charges after Florida authorities have exonerated him; that would be a pretty interesting twist considering there now appears to be no federal statute applicable to this incident.
    Yonivore-I am not implying that the Feds, Obama or Holder would do anything dishonest…I am saying that the moment the Department of Justice was handed this case Zimmerman is now in big trouble…This case has gone from a local police department which may have some qualified investigators to the Federal Government which has rocket scientists at their disposal…The Feds are the best of the best…These people are brilliant…They will dissect this every which way they can…

    I would hate to have them examine my life…
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