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And rightfully so. I'm north of 50 and I have served on enough juries to see people's ability to want to place agenda over justice appalling.
Have you been on any serious jury cases?
You all don't give jurors much credit.
And rightfully so. I'm north of 50 and I have served on enough juries to see people's ability to want to place agenda over justice appalling.
Have you been on any serious jury cases?
Are you serious!? The jurors in my case went with the facts and not all the media hype.
Go yourself troll.
Use your real ID or STFU.
The 2nd degree charge came out of left field. If Corey is overcharging intentionally, that is a very high-risk move that increases the chances of a Not Guilty Verdict.
One thing to remember is that no solid facts about forensic evidence or the autopsy were leaked. There is gamechanging potential in each of these aspects.
One theory is that forensic and autopsy evidence led her to believe that Zimmerman shot Martin in the back. Remember that Martin was found lying face down with both hands underneath his body.
If Zimmerman was initially losing the fight (numerous 911 calls mentioned 2 guys wrestling outside, so the person in control could easily have changed a few times over the course of the fight), but then gained control and pinned Trayvon down and shot him in the back it would explain quite a few things:
1) Why there was no blood on Zimmerman. Zimmerman claims he was on the bottom and shot Trayvon who was on top of him. Yet 30 minutes later there didn't appear to be any blood on his body. Blood should have splattered all over his body in this scenario. If there was blood, surely the police would have been wearing gloves.
2) The yells for Help on the 911 call. In a scenario where Zimmerman has Trayvon pinned down, the yells for help pass the common sense test because Trayvon knew George had a gun and could have been bracing to shoot him.
If one is to believe that the voice on the 911 call was George Z and he was on the ground, then they have to believe that George endured a beating for nearly one full minute that did not ultimately result in the EMT who arrived at the scene at least putting one bandage on him. This story would be much easier to believe had we not heard the screams last as long as they did.
3) The statements by Mary Cutcher and her roommate Cutcher and her roommate claim to have seen George straddling Trayvon. That is consistent with George having Trayvon pinned down but inconsistent with George being on the ground. Why would George get up and straddle Trayvon after shooting him if he was on the bottom?
4) Trayvon's body positioning. If George was on the bottom and shot Trayvon, does Trayvon fall forward and have both his arms tucked underneath his body instead of to his side? George Z pinning Trayvon down seems more consistent with this fact.
The credibility of Trayvon's girlfriend is going to be huge in this case if it goes to trial. She may be the only witness present when the fight actually commenced, even though she is an ear witness.
Corey was also quoted the day she took over as prosecutor that the question of who's voice was on the 911 call was vital in her determination of how to proceed with the case. She hired an expert to analyze the voice. Assuming Corey hasn't done this for political reasons (which is definitely very plausible), one other reason for the strong charge could be that she's seen some sort of evidence to indicate it was Trayvon screaming. I see no scenario in which 12 jurors are convinced it is Trayvon's voice that they don't convict Zimmerman of at least some wrongdoing.
As of now, a conviction seems hard to envision even though many think the media has already convicted George.
Last edited by bobbyjoe; 04-12-2012 at 06:59 AM.
I can’t believe this guy has not been shot already…Mike Tyson…
Agreed. I wonder if it's what the parents want, or if it's because there isn't evidence of anything and makes it the PC right political play.
Yep. that's why I haven't taken a solid viewpoint, but with the evidence this far leaked, see Zimmerman as being innocent of the charges.
I seriously doubt that. This would have been obvious with the initial investigation. If this were true, there is either a conspiracy within the Sanford system, or complete incompetence, and several officials will be prosecuted or fired too.
Again, I don't believe "in the back." This would have resulted in an arrest right away, where he didn't walk out the same day.
The chest/lung area doesn't spurt out. Martin's hoodie would also possible contain all nut a few spatters of blood.
Assumption.
He was treated for injuries. Did you miss that, or are you intentionally not believeing the accounts?
He just got up. He may have been assessing the situation. One can only guess, but that doesn't mean anything by itself.
Why?
If her testimony is limited to what we already have heard, then there is nothing important. The call records piece together time, and that's about it.
I'm surprised you didn't mention martin's mother saying that was her son screaming for help. I will contend that this was her assumption when she heard her son was dead, and later the tape. I'll bet that Trayvon had never cried for help like that in earshot of his mother since he started puberty, and it was nothing but her assumption.
I'll bet that whole post is nothing buy YOUR assumption, Wild and Crazy.
The post is plausible explanations that blow away the other assumptions. If you have an ounce of intelligence, you know I see this could go either way.
Why do we have so many trolls here who are to scared to use their real ID?
ing coward.
Like Wild Cobra is your real ID. STFU and kiss my acquited white ass.
It's a handle I have used for a very long time. Well before the turn of the century.
How long have you pretended to be someone else? At least I created mine, and am not pretending to be someone else. This is the only ID I use here. How many other troll ID's do you have loser?
Trolling is disruptive behavior for no apparent reason. Most often we see it in children that were abused and/or that never bonded with family, friends or any particular group of society. They are lonely reaching out for attention of any kind and they get that quick fix when you react. As much help as these people need their is nothing you, the one being trolled can do about it. Best to move on, that's what most people do. You must understand that it's a cry out for help.They are saying "why doesn't anyone love me" instead of asking for love, attention, they chose to get angry. They kid themselves into thinking its funny, amusing, entertaining, justified but at the end of the day they do not know how to express themselves like civilized adults. God bless
I think it's useless to speculate any more until we have more information about why the prosecutor chose 2nd Degree Murder. The facts we do know don't seem to point that direction so, there's either evidence we don't have or the prosecutor is reaching for political reasons (she spent a lot of time in the news conference petting the Martin family and praising their legal counsel -- not exactly a hallmark of impartiality but, who knows, maybe she sees this as her 15 minutes and she's already looking at movie and book deals).
What we do know about the incident is completely consistent with Zimmerman's claim of self defense. What we don't know about the incident could negate his claim.
Right now, I think the most important pieces of information are the time stamps on all the phone calls, particularly the 911 call from Zimmerman and the phone call between Martin and his girlfriend. The shorter the time span between the end of the 911 call and the when the call between Martin and his girlfriend disconnected, the more likely it is, in my opinion, Martin is the aggressor.
It's apparent to me, from the 911 call, that Zimmerman had stopped following Martin by the end of the 911 call; 1) he was walking to the next street to verify the address, 2) he was whining about how "they always get away," and 3) it doesn't sound like he's running on the recording.
The longer the gap between the end of the two calls the more possible it is that Zimmerman resumed his "pursuit" of Martin, after hanging up and did, in fact, catch up to him and instigate a confrontation. The shorter the gap, the more possible it is Martin laid in wait until Zimmerman hung up and then confronted him.
Why do I believe the latter to be the more likely scenario? Martin speaks first (according to the girlfriend) and the shooting happened fairly close to where Zimmerman claims he is in the 911 call. There was also the point in the 911 call when Zimmerman claims Martin was approaching him while he sat in his truck talking to police on the phone.
What we can't know is (assuming this is true) why did Martin change his mind about approaching Zimmerman and, instead, take off running? Did he overhear the conversation and realize police were being called to check him out? Did he realize Zimmerman was on the phone and that approaching him would mean someone would hear the exchange between he and Zimmerman and he didn't want that? Did Zimmerman brandish his weapon and frighten Martin off?
Another thing to consider is that police were familiar with Zimmerman; I think I read somewhere he had made something like 46 911 calls in the recent past. Zimmerman was also involved in an action where at least one of the officers that responded to the shooting were also facing disciplinary action because of Zimmerman's community activism.
I mention this only because it might lend credence to the assumption there was was no love lost between Zimmerman and the Sanford Police and, therefore, no reason for them to cover his ass or falsify reports or fabricate evidence -- unless, of course, it was to incriminate.
Why was there no blood on Zimmerman in the police video?
My understanding is medical personnel treated and cleaned his injuries at the scene. Additionally, he was wearing a red and black coat/sweater. Blood comes out red and dries dark. Also, it is entirely possible -- as someone else said -- Trayvon Martin retreated after being shot and made it a few feet before collapsing and dying...adrenalin is an amazing drug.
If any of us have seen the video where the plate umpire collapsed and died before the first pitch of a season opener in Cincinnati, a few years ago, we know the body can continue to function for a short time after the heart ceases functioning. In my experience, only catastrophic head, brain stem, and mobility impairing spinal injuries produce a DRT ("Dead Right There") result.
I don't know if there was an exit wound but, CosmicCowboy makes a valid point; the entry wound wouldn't necessarily produce a lot of blood unless the bullet pierced a major artery without affecting the function of the heart. The way it sounds, the Trayvon may have been shot in the heart and the heart may have suffered an immediate, fatal arrhythmia that caused it to cease pumping blood. No pump, no bleeding.
It's possible any bleeding from George Zimmerman's head wound ran down his neck and soaked into whatever garmet he was wearing under the red and black sweater/coat.
I wonder if the criminal complaint will be released.
Last edited by Yonivore; 04-12-2012 at 09:30 AM.
and how did blood get diverted to the brain and muscles without a heart pumping blood ? and adrenaline is not a 'drug'. it's a hormone.Also, it is entirely possible -- as someone else said -- Trayvon Martin retreated after being shot and made it a few feet before collapsing and dying...adrenalin is an amazing drug.
The blood already in the brain and muscles remains oxygenated for a period of time after the blood stops flowing. Body processes don't leech oxygen out of the blood 100% and so, the residual will last a few seconds.
Besides, I've witnessed it -- on more than one occasion.
An imprecise generalization; prescription hormone therapies are called drugs by some; are you going to quibble with those people too?
Death is not immediate with a chest shot, especially from a 9mm which is a relatively light round. It takes a few seconds for blood pressure to drop enough from internal bleeding for the brain to lose cognizance. There's no doubt in my mind Martin knew he was shot, clutched his chest, and gradually lost consciousness and motor function.
the question is whether or not he had the capacity to keep walking. if he went into v-fib, it would be microseconds before he lost consciousness. measurable brain activity is not the equivalent to consciousness.
i'm sure the prosecutor has reviewed the autopsy report with the medical examiner. it may not fall into place with your steady stream of 'what-ifs '.
not to mention the improbability of a child weighing less than 150 lbs and being shot from close distance remaining standing.
Trayvon's mom says 'shooting was accident,' Zimmerman to face judge
A perfectly reasonable position -- by the one of the few people I would consider to have every right to be unreasonable, under the cir stances."I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."
Fulton said even if Zimmerman is found not guilty, the arrest achieves the goal of their campaign to raise awareness and bring him to justice.
"We just want him to be held accountable for what he done," Fulton said. "We are happy that he was arrested so that he can give his side of the story."
Meanwhile, the hyperventilating by the race-baiters continues...
Mike Tyson on George Zimmerman: ‘It’s a disgrace he hasn’t been shot yet’
yoni is propping up mike tyson?
You don't have much real world experience with guns and gun shot wounds do you?
Trayvon's mother: "I believe it was an accident."
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...es-bail/51054/
This should make the trial even more interesting.
were you in combat or a gang ? how many times have you been shot or seen someone shot ? (right there at that very moment)
that aside, your argument of authority is pure fallacy. what does the autopsy report say? what did the crime scene look like ?
are you suggesting the defense will ask the jurors such a simple question after offering highly speculative scenarios or in the face of palpable evidence ?
I dont get it. Tons of kids die every year by guns.
Some by accident, some not...
But this case got so much attention, why?
(for the record, been out of the states for 2 years now, so not following this story much)
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