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You crashed their website posting that link here.
The Splitter-Duncan pairing that never happens
by Andrew A. McNeill
AT&T CENTER — One of the perks of having press credentials to the Spurs games is being able to sit with other bloggers while the game is going on and bounce ideas off each other. Last night, when the Spurs beat the Grizzlies 107-97, the topic again came up between myself, Matthew Tynan of Pounding the Rock and Paul Garcia from Project Spurs of Coach Pop’s aversion to playing Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter together.
It’s been mentioned time and again that starting Splitter and Duncan would give the second unit a big man combo including two of Matt Bonner / Boris Diaw / DeJuan Blair. I still believe that second group would be a defensive liability for the Spurs.
But why don’t Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter play together late in games?
From what I’ve noticed, Pop wants Duncan running the pick-and-rolls with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili late in games. It’s hard to argue that someone else should be setting picks and rolling to the basketball because Tim Duncan is, well, Tim Duncan. You’re going to argue that the greatest power forward of all-time shouldn’t be the one in those situations?
The problem is that Tiago Splitter is a pick-and-roll guy. There’s not much else for him to do on offense if he’s not putting a body on an opposing guard and diving to the basket. Splitter’s not going to stretch the floor and float around anywhere near the perimeter, waiting to knock down a jumper. Posting up and pick-and-rolls are the extent of his offensive game.
That’s why you see a lot of Matt Bonner late in games. He does those things that Tiago Splitter doesn’t as a compliment to a Duncan pick-and-roll. Even if he hasn’t knocked down shots in that game, he’s still got a track record as a spot-up 3-point shooter and defenses have to respect that.
Where most people will understandably resist Splitter’s exclusion from the crunch time lineup is on the defensive end. Pairing Duncan and Splitter together will obviously give the Spurs their best defensive big man combo. The thing is, though, Matt Bonner’s not a terrible team defender. He knows how to play help defense and rarely misses a rotation. He runs out on shooters and blocks out his man on the rebounds (even if he rarely grabs a board himself).
Bonner’s even the sixth ranked post defender in the league, according to Synergy Sports. Bonner is giving up just .58 points per possession on 83 instances this season. Overall, Bonner’s giving up .78 PPP in 322 total possessions this year. I’m terrified if someone gets him in a one-on-one situation, but simply saying he’s a bad defender is misinformed and erroneous.
Basically, the take away on the defensive end with Bonner is less than the negative on the offensive end with Splitter. Would you rather score seven points in the last two minutes and allow six, or score 10 points in that time and give up seven? That’s essentially the game Pop is playing right now.
What will be interesting over the next week and a half or so is to see if Boris Diaw can eat up some of Bonner’s crunch time minutes. Diaw maybe able to provide some floor spreading capabilities similar to Bonner, with better passing, and he puts up comparable defensive numbers to Bonner with a slightly better total rebound percentage. Something to keep an eye on as we get into the playoffs.
http://www.48minutesof .com/tim-d...splitter-spurs
You crashed their website posting that link here.
There is nothing wrong with Splitter pick and rolls with Duncan roaming for 15 footers and crashing the glass. Saying the offense will crash to a halt because Duncan and Splitter are on the court together is idiocy. Plus, if he thinks Matt Bonner is a capable enough defender to guard the likes of Gasol, Randolph, Griffin, Nowitzki, Scola (thread) and Millsap in the playoffs...he has been watching the games with blinders on. Bonner may be ok trying to defend Ibaka but no way he keeps him off the glass.
Yeah, Bonner is a great defender when we are having to double and triple team his man. Somehow Bynum and Gasol play together. Maybe the Lakers should only give Bynum 13 mins a game and let him play with the 2nd unit to give them more size.
How did we hide Oberto years ago? Why cant we just show splitter oberyns videos and tell him to do what he did. Makes no sense, it's not like oberto had any range, and him and Tim played all the time...arghhh this is probably the most frustrating thing I've witnessed since being a fan in the early 90s.
Agreed. The only thing that could possibly frustrate me more is if Splitter was somehow starting with Tim next season or dropped altogether. Both scenarios would really get my blood boiling (even more) and I can't figure out which would annoy me more.
b0o0o.......use that press badge for something good and stop sucking pops junk.
it doesn't make sense how this conclusion is made without having a bigger sample size of timmy and tiago playing together.
this.
And also if they dont play together, Splitter should at least be getting all the minutes that Tim is not on the court.
I agree that Matt is a better defender than we give him credit for, but this article is basing these observations on limited minutes for the Splitter/Duncan combo while Bonner and Tim have played together for years.
It's not even just Oberto. If Blair can start Splitter is more than capable of starting.
Oberto in 2007
Nazr in 2005
These bigs couldn't shoot a lick.
48 MoH must be on the Spurs payroll.
That would be so hilarious. If only there was some way to investigate that stuff.
yea, we didn't have to spread the floor back then and we still won. Ok, Horry was great in 05 but Bonner is no big shot.
We didn't play the same way, the team has done a 180° and is now winning with offense so any comparison is moot, plus Tim wasn't the same.
We win when we score more than 100pts. Pretty sure than the few Tiago Tim frontline sightings didn't result in a scoring output that kept us on pace for 100+.
Then again hard to score 100+ when you don't grab any rebound but the spacing does help with that to some extend.
Sure the scoring wasn't enough to put you at 100+ but at least when they played together the opponents weren't scoring that much either.
I don't think there's very many teams that have won it all with mediocre defense and our offense is good but not to the point where we can do away with defense altogether.
I thought Spitter was a good player but after reading this article I learned that actually he's only good in pick and roll and post ups...if only those were important skills for a bigman. Luckily we have Bonner who excels in the fundamentals of standing still 25 feet from the basket waiting for someone to pass him the ball.
Another nuanced, insightful 48MOH article.
Yet I'd be curious to see Tiago's PER paired with Tim as opposed to Bonner who gives him a lot of room in the paint.
I wish there was some way to "like" posts/posters.
I don't think that's the way to judge it though. They've barely played together in the last two years and nobody's saying that they'll fit as seamlessly as either of them + regular season Bonner.
We just think the defense gets significantly better with them both on the floor and that with some work the offense should be solid enough that the Spurs can actually become serious contenders. As a pair, they'd still be a work in progress but I'd rather lose now and be better prepared for the playoffs if that's what it comes down to. This would also allow us to play our best players when it matters.
Last edited by TheSkeptic; 04-13-2012 at 08:57 PM.
I feel like I'm seeing things more and more like Pop. 48 great minutes at the center position with a stretch 4 to give them space is better than 20 minutes with great rebounding, bad O, not that good D (Tiago is infinitely better at defending centers from what I've seen, then again some people say that he's just getting tired quickly) and x minutes with not real center.
Then again if Tiago has the conditionning to play more minutes, he could play back up center AND some PF, like Manu is playing back-up PG and SG when TP is in.
If Tiago had shown he could defend the Nowitzkis and Pau Gasols I may not have the same stance, but he hasn't while he did well against centers.
So now Lamarcus Aldridge is a center? He wasn't bad against Gasol or Dirk really and against the Lakers Tim really only needed him to take one of their frontcourt.
And at that, who says they have to play man to man when they've got two bigs near the basket? I'm sure there's a quasi-zone type system that can exploit that while allowing them to crash the boards.
You need to do what it takes to play your best players in the post-season (especially when Bonner/Blair are your other options).
I am thinking this is how Pop sees it. The funny thing about this article is that for all you church of Tiago folks this article shows you can tell any lie you want with statistics. Just like you guys scoff at the statistics boasting of Ginger's defensive powers, the same can be said about always boasting about Tiago's +/- numbers. Some of the guys in here were acting like Tiago could handle Bynum in that last Laker game...
This is pretty much where I stand. Even if Pop doesn't think Duncan and Splitter will work in theory, he owes it to the team to find out. It's so un-Pop-like to just ignore a potential pairing that could be useful in the playoffs. , he even attempted Parker/Ford, Leonard/Jefferson, Green at PG, Jackson at PF and other alignments that don't make much sense on paper.
It's obvious that Duncan and Splitter together wouldn't be perfect but there's no excuse for Pop to ignore it completely. The Spurs have played more than 2,700 minutes this season. Duncan and Splitter have played together a total of like 120 minutes. That's myopic to the nth degree, tbh.
None of that matters because Bonner is a serviceable team defender...
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