george's daddy is a judge?
That's your proof? Absolutley disgusts me that we got people vigorously defending shooting an unarmed kid. Listen, the law states that if the person fears for his life, he could use self defense. It's been noted that GZ feared for his life because his head was being pounded into the pavement, well then why didn't he shoot Martin on the pavement? They rolled to the grass so the life threat level dramitically reduces. Was GZ being strangled on the grass that continued his life to be threatened enough for him to shoot him? No.Here's my proof:
I find it unbelievable that his life was actually in danger throughout the whole fight that warrants a gun to come into play. He thought " I'm getting my ass kicked, daddy judge taught me that this would be a suitable time to kill a "
george's daddy is a judge?
Ex-judge
I totally agree with you.
With respect to the bolded, the best explanation is that the head pounding didn't happen. I never get tired of mentioning this tbh.
"The prosecuting attorney, after saying "I didn't know we were going to be trying the case today," is back to ask questions of state attorney's investigator Dale Gilbreath, after O'Mara asked questions challenging the state's assertions.
The prosecutor asked Gilbreath whether there was any evidence indicating that Zimmerman's account that Martin bashed his head against a sidewalk wasn't true. Gilbreath said yes."
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20...rge-zimmerman/
The link is a transcript of what happened.
I think with the information here you can actually put together a decent timeline. I just haven't had time to do it.
Federal magistrate wasn't it?
Great question.
Why wasn't trayvon murdered on concrete where GZ was supposedly about to die at?
*waits for excuse #40987 as to why GZ was justified for murdering an unarmed child*
u gotta be ting me? his daddy was a judge, and he lies in court?
daddy must be so proud.
Wow. Raw deal. Yeah that makes sense (your explanation not the system). Thanks.
bfd they play for the same team.
Of course q and a is going to be only that which points to convict.
When asked q's by defense atty O'Mara:
O'Mara asked whether Gilbreath had any evidence contradicting Zimmerman's statement to Sanford police on the night of the incident that Zimmerman: 1) turned toward his car after losing sight of Martin; and 2) that Martin started the fight that led to the shooting. Gilbreath said no.
1.) Answer this question simply, succinctly, and honestly: can an unarmed man kill you? can fists kill you?
2.) As for the gun coming into play, and as for what was threatening his life after they moved away from the sidewalk... the answer is that according to GZ, Trayvon brought the gun into play, not GZ. Trayvon saw the gun and went for it, and also threatened to kill GZ with it.
I have no doubt that you have a hard time believing that. But consider this, why would a man who had called the police beforehand go on to commit a crime? why would a man who had every reason to believe multiple neighbors were watching (or at least John) commit coldblooded, unnecessary murder right in front of witnesses? Why would he let an entire minute of beating him go by without using his weapon if he was so trigger happy?
I think something dramatic had to happen to make him switch from a tactic of fending off blows as best he could with his arms, and trying to shift them away from the sidewalk... and trying to involve a third party by screaming for help, to suddenly using his gun, at the risk of the police showing up in time to see him shoot someone. What was it that changed? I think GZ's explanation that his life became much more endangered right then, because Trayvon saw the gun for the first time, and attempted to take it, makes sense.
I think there are a lot of you here who are so clouded by emotion, and so caught up in the initial, extremely skewed narrative the media was pushing... that you simply cannot, and will not allow the facts of the matter to seep into your heads. I suggest you reconsider.
In the first week this story broke, I was thinking about it the same way you are. I dug for facts, and I actually let facts determine my view. Quaint, eh?
You can stop while you're ahead. It's no use arguing with THOSE PEOPLE, the lines have been drawn - there's only a red team and a blue team in this thread.
Lucky for you, you're with the red team. That's me, WC, Darrins, and the rest of the Freedom Crew. Welcome aboard, son!
did you find those "facts" the same place you found out Trayvon was a drug dealer?
The nerve of Trayvon seeing someone with a gun and trying to fight for his life! He should have just stood there and died like a man!
To your #1 Question: Yes a fist can kill. Are you actually advocating that everyone who is getting their asses kicked, have a right to pull out a gun and kill them? Answer that honestly.
To your #2 Question: I laugh at how you take GZ word so quickly despite the fact that he displayed dishonestly NUMEROUS times. You are no better than the cops at the crime scene that did a crappy job at examining evidence.
He called the cops because he knew some was about to go down. Zimmerman knows the law and I would not be surprised he came up with ways to kill someone legally if it came down to it. I don't think Zimmerman was on the prowl to kill a but he was definitely ready for anything to go down that night. He previously made multiple calls reporting su ious black males that got away. That night, it was not going to happen again. He was empowered by the gun. Why would anyone go up to a su ious person without some protection? Why did Zimmerman tell the cops to call him when they get there rather than wait at some place as discussed with the dispatcher? He wasn't going to let this one get away.I have no doubt that you have a hard time believing that. But consider this, why would a man who had called the police beforehand go on to commit a crime? why would a man who had every reason to believe multiple neighbors were watching (or at least John) commit coldblooded, unnecessary murder right in front of witnesses? Why would he let an entire minute of beating him go by without using his weapon if he was so trigger happy?
Wow, Zimmerman was getting his ass beat so close to death that he was able to devise spur of the moment fighting tactics. We don't know who screamed for help and I really doubt that Zimmerman was the one screaming for help. You saying you got all these facts but you don't and you let yourself speculate to defend the side of a person that murdered a kid. That's all on you. You better hope you are right.I think something dramatic had to happen to make him switch from a tactic of fending off blows as best he could with his arms, and trying to shift them away from the sidewalk... and trying to involve a third party by screaming for help, to suddenly using his gun, at the risk of the police showing up in time to see him shoot someone. What was it that changed? I think GZ's explanation that his life became much more endangered right then, because Trayvon saw the gun for the first time, and attempted to take it, makes sense.
No. Now that most of the hard emotions have subsided, I feel just the same and the fact that Zimmerman changed his story a few times makes it even worse. I think you are trying to be too liberal that its keeping you from seeing things as they are. You saw how the media was out to get him and the outrage along with the media so you donned your hippie clothes to fight for INjustice for Zimmerman.I think there are a lot of you here who are so clouded by emotion, and so caught up in the initial, extremely skewed narrative the media was pushing... that you simply cannot, and will not allow the facts of the matter to seep into your heads. I suggest you reconsider.
Allow this to seep into your head: Zimmerman KILLED an UNARMED teen. He KILLED a boy WALKING home. Zimmerman WRONGLY profiled a walking black teen as SU IOUS, stalked him, provoked him, and KILLED him.
Last edited by Creepn; 05-02-2012 at 11:23 PM.
could you imagine the responses in this thread if the kid was alive and lied to the judge?
could you imagine the responses in this thread if the kid was alive and lied to the judge?
I saw that but I don't think it's necessarily inconsistent.bfd they play for the same team.
Of course q and a is going to be only that which points to convict.
When asked q's by defense atty O'Mara:
O'Mara asked whether Gilbreath had any evidence contradicting Zimmerman's statement to Sanford police on the night of the incident that Zimmerman: 1) turned toward his car after losing sight of Martin; and 2) that Martin started the fight that led to the shooting. Gilbreath said no.
Zimmerman turning back towards his car at some point doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't go after the kid again since I believe at one point he lost sight of him. The body was too far away from his truck for me to believe that Zimmerman was jumped near his vehicle. The phone records also show that Trayvon had been on the phone up until a minute or two before he was dead so between that, the 911 call, and the location of the body I think Zimmerman likely caught up with the kid at some point.
Sure we don't know who threw the first punch. That detail is kind of irrelevant to me because we do know that the part Zimmerman was using to justify pulling the trigger (head beaten repeatedly into the pavement) didn't happen. So it's most likely that he got punched, lost his balance (hit his head on the pavement), kid gets on top of him (breaking his nose at some point in the altercation), and then Zimmerman eventually gets the upperhand and shoots.
If Zimmerman wasn't being knocked unconscious or strangled at the time he pulled the trigger, he basically brought a gun to a fistfight and I don't think that's acceptable. At worst, Trayvon would be guilty of assault while Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter in my view.
I've already said that if I was on the jury I wouldn't convict him of Murder 2. I'm just happy he's standing trial.
Last edited by TheSkeptic; 05-03-2012 at 12:30 AM.
I'm neither a Republican or a Democrat Stringer so you don't need to spin it that way. There's no difference between those two sides.
I just believe that wrong is wrong and that when someone dies a proper investigation and a trial is necessary.
Honestly, I cant. So martin is alive but lied to the judge. This is your show. Give us directions. God bless.
Creepn, Clambake, and Trill Clinton with the goods.
Went overboard...
Are you saying Zimmerman was in his right to use his weapon?
- George Zimmerman brought the gun into play by ignoring neighborhood watch protocol. There's a reason why Neighborhood watchmen are discouraged from being armed and are trained to simply "Observe and Report" George Zimmerman brought the gun with him to the scene of the killing. Trayvon Martin wasn't armed. If Zimmerman didn't bring a gun, no one dies. This is a material fact. If you want to own a gun, you have to act responsibly or live with the consequences of your own actions.
- Even the staunchest of Zimmerman supporters has to concede at this point that his credibility is questionable. The guy probably committed perjury by claiming under oath he was indigent when he clearly was not. That's a 3rd degree felony. Once again, we have laws in this country and when you go under oath and swear to tell the truth but then lie (or at best deceive), there are consequences.
- Given Zimmerman's misleading at best and criminal at worst statements in his bond hearing, why would we simply accept as a fact that Trayvon reached for his gun when he is the only individual who has claimed this and has an obvious motive to be dishonest? Anyway, if what you say is true, surely Trayvon's DNA and fingerprints will be on Zimmerman's gun and he will be granted immunity via the Stand Your Ground defense and this case will be over rather abruptly.
- If a picture of a bloody head makes Martin a thug, what did it make Zimmerman in 2005 when he had to enter a pre-trial diversion program and taken anger management classes based on his arrest from assaulting a police officer? The 2005 incident went through the court system whereas in the current case there isn't proof of Trayvon initiating the altercation.
- On the one hand, you believe that Martin being killed by Z doesn't mean that Z committed a crime, citing self-defense as your reasoning. On the other hand, you use a picture of Z's bloody head as proof Trayvon was a thug. This completely discounts the possibility that the reason for the blood on Z's head was the precise reason you cite to justify Z's innocence with respect to the shooting... self-defense. How is that picture proof of who started the fight? Is Trayvon a thug if Z started the fight? Do you have any proof or facts to suggest who initiated it? Please don't tell me "Because Zimmerman said so".
- Creepn makes an excellent point that Zimmerman's assertion of his life being in jeopardy from his head being bashed in can not justify use of deadly force because the shooting took place on the grass. That's a problematic fact for him, particularly if the prosecution can demonstrate that the head bashing claim itself is dubious.
I believe self-defense is an affirmative defense, wherein the burden of proof by a preponderance of evidence is on the defendant. He'll need to come up with a new story if the evidence does not show Trayvon's DNA and fingerprints on the gun but then he's hamstrung in what he can claim due to his interrogation by the police. If he's caught in a series of lies, he'll likely be convicted of some sort of a crime here.
- Did anyone notice that Zimmerman seems to be on his cell phone in the picture with his bloody head? It will be interesting to see who he called if it wasn't the police...
I can't believe what a troll Clambake has turned into in this thread. Some of the other blue teamers are just bum ing stupid but Clammy has really gone downhill in this thread.
why you hating on me?
Because you aren't as stupid as Trill and Skeptic and some of the others but you are sure playing the part in this one.
what exactly have i said that bothers you? lets examine it together.
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