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  1. #3301
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    I was talking about Rico Gray.
    What are you strawmanning off for?

    Are you yet another ST troll whose sole purpose is to amass hits to the site?
    Strawman?



    You called that guy an ape.
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  2. #3302
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    1"-18"


    Now you can get over it since it wasn't a fact after all.
    Ah. Saw that then. Still discredits Zimmerman's version of the events though because if he didn't have Trayvon's blood on him and it wasn't a contact shot, that probably means that the shooting itself didn't happen the way he said it did. Especially since the kid's DNA was con uously absent from the weapon and its holster.

    I'm waiting to see what other evidence the prosecution has though but I'm leaning back again towards manslaughter as the appropriate charge and a civil lawsuit as the appropriate action.

    Though since Zimmerman was also apparently on medication it could be the case that he thought he was in danger and overreacted.
    Last edited by TheSkeptic; 05-19-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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  3. #3303
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    I realize you are only stirring up but there is only evidence that he ingested pot within the previous 4 weeks. Not that he was high at that time. there have been eyewitnesses purporting that same thing before. I haven't seen many people claim that he beat himself up. I also haven't been able to correlate the locations, timing etc between the testimonies.

    Right now its the same status quo as before which obviously gives reasonable doubt. Martin beat on Zimmerman before he shot him. Oh wait he had smoked some pot within the previous few weeks as if that is an excuse to shoot someone.

    What will be telling is if the prosecution has a witness to the beginning of the confrontation. ie the events that precipitated the fight.
    Not necessarily because Florida law allows someone who feels threatened to throw the first punch. Regardless of Zimmerman's intentions I'm thinking that the prosecution will say that Martin had reason to be afraid and will use the fact that he ran to show a certain measure of fear.

    She'll probably also use that to discredit O'Mara's use of SYG as well. There seems to be a clear pattern in the way that she attacks that particular defense.
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  4. #3304
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Not necessarily because Florida law allows someone who feels threatened to throw the first punch. Regardless of Zimmerman's intentions I'm thinking that the prosecution will say that Martin had reason to be afraid and will use the fact that he ran to show a certain measure of fear.

    She'll probably also use that to discredit O'Mara's use of SYG as well. There seems to be a clear pattern in the way that she attacks that particular defense.
    The same set of Florida laws allows someone who believes they are facing imminent death or serious bodily harm (no matter the genesis of the assault) to use whatever force necessary to repel the attack.

    If, as an eye witness has described, Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman pinned to the ground and was wailing away on him "Mixed Martial Arts" style -- which, by the way, all the evidence supports -- and banging his head against the concrete -- also supported by the evidence -- it doesn't really matter who threw the first punch -- even though, it is becoming increasingly likely it was as Zimmerman described and Martin was the aggressor.
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  5. #3305
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Ah. Saw that then. Still discredits Zimmerman's version of the events though...
    No, it doesn't. I just doesn't support whatever version to which you subscribe.

    ...because if he didn't have Trayvon's blood on him and it wasn't a contact shot, that probably means that the shooting itself didn't happen the way he said it did.
    Nope, it just means there was none of Trayvon Martin's blood found on Zimmerman and, by the way, 1" is just about a contact shot. It could just as easily mean Martin realized Zimmerman had gained control of the weapon and was attempt to back away from him when the shot was fired.

    Especially since the kid's DNA was con uously absent from the weapon and its holster.
    Why?

    I'm waiting to see what other evidence the prosecution has though but I'm leaning back again towards manslaughter as the appropriate charge and a civil lawsuit as the appropriate action.

    Though since Zimmerman was also apparently on medication it could be the case that he thought he was in danger and overreacted.
    Of course, it could be as he described. The injuries he sustained seem to support a belief he was in danger.
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  6. #3306
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Blood doesn't splatter like in the movies. The bullet made a tiny entrance hole and then went into the heart and tore up that got contained. You are a ing dumbass if you think Zimmerman was supposed to be splattered with Martins blood.
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  7. #3307
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    The same set of Florida laws allows someone who believes they are facing imminent death or serious bodily harm (no matter the genesis of the assault) to use whatever force necessary to repel the attack.

    If, as an eye witness has described, Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman pinned to the ground and was wailing away on him "Mixed Martial Arts" style -- which, by the way, all the evidence supports -- and banging his head against the concrete -- also supported by the evidence -- it doesn't really matter who threw the first punch -- even though, it is becoming increasingly likely it was as Zimmerman described and Martin was the aggressor.
    The problem for Zimmerman is that merely being in a fight does not mean, even in a very progressive self-defense state like Florida, that you have a right to legally kill someone. If this was the case, teenagers would be legally en led to kill each other each time shoving matches ensued!

    The key is whether the attack was of such a nature that serious bodily harm was a reasonable expectation. I don't think being punched in the face meets that criteria and I believe Florida case law has also held that violence of that grade does NOT allow for justifiable killings. You have to remember that the bar for Zimmerman to claim self-defense is much higher in this case because he wasn't in his home or vehicle and Trayvon was not committing an illegal act against him or his property.

    Now, having your head repeatedly bashed into the concrete does in my opinion rise to a higher level than does a fist fight or a wrestling match. However, no witness other than Zimmerman to date has made that claim.

    If Zimmerman has cited having his head bashed into the concrete as the crux of why he felt his life was in danger, he is in some real trouble because the shooting occurred in a grassy area not on a concrete pad. So, if you believe his statement that the threat of severe head injuries from having your head bashed on the concrete had been removed at the moment he elected to fire at Trayvon. That's a real problem for him.

    I'm not sure how closely you've looked at the evidence that has been released, but the variance in eyewitness accounts as to what took place is incredibly high. So you can't just focus on the one witness who happens to provide the statement that is most beneficial to Zimmerman. Many witnesses believe Zimmerman was on top and there are witnesses who believe there was no physical confrontation at the time of the shooting, which again begs the question of just what level of threat Zimmerman faced at the time the shot actually took place.

    The injuries indicate Zimmerman got the worse of the physical altercation, but in no way, shape or form do they indicate who the aggressor was.

    Unfortunately, it is doubtful anyone will ever know who the true aggressor was because no witness has stepped forward to opine on that other than the earwitness.

    However, what we do know cir stantially clearly points to Zimmerman as likely being the aggressor:

    - Zimmerman called 911 minutes before the shooting and was clearly upset and cursing about the prospect of "yet another asshole getting away". He has admitted to at least initially following Trayvon. Meanwhile, Trayvon was on the phone was his girlfriend at the time of the shooting.

    Who is more likely to be in a confrontational mindframe? A neighborhood watchman armed with a gun who is upset that a criminal is getting away or an unarmed teenager in a foreign neighborhood talking to his girlfriend while walking home who is otherwise engaged in unremarkable conduct?

    - Zimmerman has admitted to following Trayvon at least initially. Trayvon meanwhile wasn't following anybody. Again, which of these 2 behaviors is indicative of a confrontational mindset: the follower or the followee?

    - Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin ran away from him, but then doubled back to track him down and confront him. Again, what is more plausible here? That a neighborhood watchman who was upset that a criminal was getting away continued to pursue him despite being advised not to? Or that a teenager who was apparently scared enough of Zimmerman to run away from did a complete 180 degree turn mentally and confronted the very stimulus that caused him to run away? Like much of Zimmerman's story, it just doesn't add up.
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  8. #3308
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    If he's not white then what is he?
    notsureifserious.jpg

    Just in case you're being serious (which would be really sad and racist IMHO, considering he doesn't resemble a Caucasian), he's considered by all parties involved (IE no one involved has argued otherwise) to be a multi-racial Hispanic American.
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  9. #3309
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    Ah. Saw that then. Still discredits Zimmerman's version of the events though because if he didn't have Trayvon's blood on him and it wasn't a contact shot, that probably means that the shooting itself didn't happen the way he said it did. Especially since the kid's DNA was con uously absent from the weapon and its holster.

    I'm waiting to see what other evidence the prosecution has though but I'm leaning back again towards manslaughter as the appropriate charge and a civil lawsuit as the appropriate action.

    Though since Zimmerman was also apparently on medication it could be the case that he thought he was in danger and overreacted.
    Did the evidence show a negative outcome on testing for Trayvon's DNA on the gun and holster? That would again be inconsistent with Zimmerman telling police that Trayvon reached for his gun and further reduce his credibility.

    This case has had manslaughter written all over it from the getgo. Murder 2 always seemed like a reach and the injuries Zimmerman sustained will make it difficult for a jury to feel he met the "depraved indifference" element.

    A Sanford Police Department volunteer actually trained Zimmerman and others in the neighborhood on neighborhood watch protocol in Fall 2011. This was done at Zimmerman's behest and the lady implored all attendees to not be armed and not confront su ous people.
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  10. #3310
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    Blood doesn't splatter like in the movies. The bullet made a tiny entrance hole and then went into the heart and tore up that got contained. You are a ing dumbass if you think Zimmerman was supposed to be splattered with Martins blood.
    You have no idea what the wound looked like, what type of round was used, how far away the shot was taken, the relative position of either body at the time the shot was made etc.

    All I see here is you filling in the blanks in a manner that exonerates Zimmerman. The only one here looking dumb is you by acting you know enough specifics to make such a claim. Its okay to say that you don't know. None of us here do.
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  11. #3311
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Ah. Saw that then. Still discredits Zimmerman's version of the events though because if he didn't have Trayvon's blood on him and it wasn't a contact shot, that probably means that the shooting itself didn't happen the way he said it did. Especially since the kid's DNA was con uously absent from the weapon and its holster.

    I'm waiting to see what other evidence the prosecution has though but I'm leaning back again towards manslaughter as the appropriate charge and a civil lawsuit as the appropriate action.

    Though since Zimmerman was also apparently on medication it could be the case that he thought he was in danger and overreacted.
    What makes you think the soft hoodie wouldn't keep most or all the blood confined Dexter? Besides, a chest wound isn't like an abdomen wound.
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  12. #3312
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Blood doesn't splatter like in the movies. The bullet made a tiny entrance hole and then went into the heart and tore up that got contained. You are a ing dumbass if you think Zimmerman was supposed to be splattered with Martins blood.
    These guys probably never shot anything in their lives. As kids, we use to shoot Greydiggers in my friends Cherry Orchard. Been hunting a few times when I was older.
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  13. #3313
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    Strawman?



    You called that guy an ape.
    And so i did. Are you attempting to make some point?

    Btw use the correct picture next time.
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  14. #3314
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    The problem for Zimmerman is that merely being in a fight does not mean, even in a very progressive self-defense state like Florida, that you have a right to legally kill someone. If this was the case, teenagers would be legally en led to kill each other each time shoving matches ensued!

    The key is whether the attack was of such a nature that serious bodily harm was a reasonable expectation. I don't think being punched in the face meets that criteria and I believe Florida case law has also held that violence of that grade does NOT allow for justifiable killings. You have to remember that the bar for Zimmerman to claim self-defense is much higher in this case because he wasn't in his home or vehicle and Trayvon was not committing an illegal act against him or his property.

    Now, having your head repeatedly bashed into the concrete does in my opinion rise to a higher level than does a fist fight or a wrestling match. However, no witness other than Zimmerman to date has made that claim.

    If Zimmerman has cited having his head bashed into the concrete as the crux of why he felt his life was in danger, he is in some real trouble because the shooting occurred in a grassy area not on a concrete pad. So, if you believe his statement that the threat of severe head injuries from having your head bashed on the concrete had been removed at the moment he elected to fire at Trayvon. That's a real problem for him.

    I'm not sure how closely you've looked at the evidence that has been released, but the variance in eyewitness accounts as to what took place is incredibly high. So you can't just focus on the one witness who happens to provide the statement that is most beneficial to Zimmerman. Many witnesses believe Zimmerman was on top and there are witnesses who believe there was no physical confrontation at the time of the shooting, which again begs the question of just what level of threat Zimmerman faced at the time the shot actually took place.

    The injuries indicate Zimmerman got the worse of the physical altercation, but in no way, shape or form do they indicate who the aggressor was.

    Unfortunately, it is doubtful anyone will ever know who the true aggressor was because no witness has stepped forward to opine on that other than the earwitness.

    However, what we do know cir stantially clearly points to Zimmerman as likely being the aggressor:

    - Zimmerman called 911 minutes before the shooting and was clearly upset and cursing about the prospect of "yet another asshole getting away". He has admitted to at least initially following Trayvon. Meanwhile, Trayvon was on the phone was his girlfriend at the time of the shooting.

    Who is more likely to be in a confrontational mindframe? A neighborhood watchman armed with a gun who is upset that a criminal is getting away or an unarmed teenager in a foreign neighborhood talking to his girlfriend while walking home who is otherwise engaged in unremarkable conduct?

    - Zimmerman has admitted to following Trayvon at least initially. Trayvon meanwhile wasn't following anybody. Again, which of these 2 behaviors is indicative of a confrontational mindset: the follower or the followee?

    - Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin ran away from him, but then doubled back to track him down and confront him. Again, what is more plausible here? That a neighborhood watchman who was upset that a criminal was getting away continued to pursue him despite being advised not to? Or that a teenager who was apparently scared enough of Zimmerman to run away from did a complete 180 degree turn mentally and confronted the very stimulus that caused him to run away? Like much of Zimmerman's story, it just doesn't add up.
    The physical and forensic evidence bear witness in support of Zimmerman.

    Do we yet know the span of time between when Zimmerman concluded the call with police and when the girlfriend claims the call with Martin was disconnected due to the altercation?

    As I've said before, the shorter the span of time the more likely it is Martin doubled back and sought out Zimmerman; the longer the time, the more time Zimmerman had to resume his search and encounter Martin.
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  15. #3315
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    Go ahead and play like calling people apes isn't more telling about the type of person you are than they are.
    Fox is obviously racially profiling Homer Simpson.
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  16. #3316
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    Video of Tray's last minutes before being murdered

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  17. #3317
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    George Zimmerman before his wrongful imprisonment.
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  18. #3318
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    zimmermans bond revoked!
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  19. #3319
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution...3#.T8kP_8UoIrU

    Damn, Zimmerman is going out of his way to look guilty.
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  20. #3320
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    You have no idea what the wound looked like, what type of round was used, how far away the shot was taken, the relative position of either body at the time the shot was made etc.

    All I see here is you filling in the blanks in a manner that exonerates Zimmerman. The only one here looking dumb is you by acting you know enough specifics to make such a claim. Its okay to say that you don't know. None of us here do.
    It was a 9mm wad. I've only shot thousands of rounds of 9mm and also killed stuff with it and a lot of other calibers too. Blood does not splatter forward like in the movies.
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  21. #3321
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution...3#.T8kP_8UoIrU

    Damn, Zimmerman is going out of his way to look guilty.
    he was guilty the moment he hopped out of his truck yet people are letting their emotions get the best of them and side with him anyway.
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  22. #3322
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution...3#.T8kP_8UoIrU

    Damn, Zimmerman is going out of his way to look guilty.
    Gotta agree that was pretty ing dumb.
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  23. #3323
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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    his wife is being charged with contempt too...damn this dude is taking everybody down with him.
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  24. #3324
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Gotta agree that was pretty ing dumb.
    not really. i told you about his character long ago.
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  25. #3325
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Still, what he did at the bail hearing has absolutely no bearing on the murder trial. It's a completely separate legal issue after the fact.
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