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  1. #226
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Words out that Morgan Stanley bought almost 40 million shares Friday at $38.

    Ouch.

    They got a 68 million fee for underwriting it and have lost almost 200 million on the stock so far.

  2. #227
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/facebo...110106287.html


    Wall Street is playing the Facebook blame game.
    As shares of the social network tumbled in their second day of trading, bankers, investors and analysts wondered what had gone wrong with the initial public offering of Facebook, the most highly anticipated technology debut in years.
    Some fingers are pointing at Morgan Stanley, the lead banker on the I.P.O., while others criticize Nasdaq and even Facebook itself. In the aftermath, critics contend that Facebook's offering price was too high and too many shares were sold to the public, hurting the stock's performance out of the gate.
    Facebook's troubles could damp enthusiasm for a spate of companies set to go public in the coming months. It could also spur changes in the I.P.O. process. In particular, big ins utional investors like Fidelity and Vanguard may demand greater say on pricing, at the expense of companies and their bankers.
    "It's a huge disappointment," David J. Abella, a portfolio manager at Rochdale Investment Management who tried to get shares in the offering but did not get an allocation. "Investors were expecting easy money on this one."
    Facebook was promoted as the next Google, a technology star primed to soar.
    But the stock stumbled in its debut on Friday. A systems error at the Nasdaq, where shares of Facebook are listed, hampered trading in the first few hours. With the company hovering around its offering price of $38 a share, Morgan Stanley had to step in to help stabilize the price. Facebook shares ended the day almost at the same place they started.
    While bankers may have hoped that Facebook would bounce back on Monday, unfettered by technical problems, such optimism faded as the stock sank. It tumbled 11 percent, closing at $34.03.
    For Morgan Stanley, landing the Facebook public offering was one of the biggest investment banking coups in almost a decade, and a successful debut would most likely have cemented its position as the dominant force in technology I.P.O.s. But Morgan Stanley now faces questions about its role in the events surrounding Facebook.
    It is an unusual situation for the bank to find itself in. In the last year, it led the biggest technology offerings, including those of LinkedIn, Groupon and Zynga. The activity has been lucrative for the firm, with the Facebook I.P.O. alone bringing in an estimated $67.8 million, according to Standard & Poor's Capital IQ.
    But the firm has also gained a reputation for being guarded. A number of bankers involved in the Facebook I.P.O. and other offerings have said Morgan Stanley makes decisions with little input from other underwriters. Rivals involved in the Facebook underwriting process say that Morgan Stanley exerted an enormous amount of control over important aspects of the process, including dominating meetings with ins utional shareholders.
    These bankers also say that Morgan Stanley bankers and Facebook executives ignored some input about pricing. Amid rising investor demand before the I.P.O., Morgan Stanley contacted other bankers to discuss raising the offering price as high as $38 a share, up from the original estimates of $28 to $35 a share.
    Some of the firms resisted, arguing that the company's fundamentals did not justify a higher valuation, according to people with knowledge of the talks. The rival bankers also worried that the outsize demand was being driven by retail investors, a more fickle cons uency. But others involved in the underwriting say that Morgan Stanley and other advisers held thousands of conversations with potential investors on what was a fair level, and that the $38 price was justified.
    For Morgan Stanley, one of the main goals was to avoid an enormous "pop" in the first day of trading, a sign that an offering may have been priced too low. LinkedIn, for instance, nearly doubled in its first day of trading. Generally, bankers favor a more modest rise, say 10 percent, balancing the needs of both new investors who want big gains and current insiders who do not want to leave money on the table.
    "The range and the size of Facebook's offering was not increased through careful observation by Morgan Stanley and its underwriters," said Nick Zaharias an independent consultant, who advises ins utional investors. "It seems like Morgan Stanley lost control of the process."
    But much of the frustration with the I.P.O. process did not boil over until Friday morning. When Nasdaq started determining Facebook's opening price, the exchange's systems were quickly overwhelmed by enormous demand from investors. Trading in the company was delayed by a half-hour, to 11:30 a.m. But many trade confirmations were not sent out until at least 1:50 p.m., meaning that many investors were flying blind.
    To several bankers, that was a recipe for disaster. As the lead underwriter and stabilization agent, Morgan Stanley was obligated to steady the trading in Facebook stock should it falter. The firm's traders bought an estimated 30 million to 40 million shares at $38 that day, hoping to prevent the stock from breaking below the offer price, according to people involved in the process.
    That exercising of the overallotment option, known as the "green shoe" in Wall Street parlance, normally succeeds in keeping a stock from veering too far from the offer price.
    But the defense mechanism is unlikely to prove effective for long, given the size of Facebook's offering and the heavy trading. Morgan Stanley had just 63 million shares to exercise. By comparison, more than more than 571 million Facebook shares changed hands on Friday and 168 million on Monday.
    "It is like fighting a war with a water gun, it wasn't that effective," one banker involved in the underwriting process said.
    Investors also had to digest a string of troubling news items that recently emerged. A week before its debut, Facebook revised its prospectus, highlighting the challenge of making money in mobile communications. Then, on May 15, General Motors, one of the country's largest advertisers, said it was withdrawing its $10 million Facebook ad budget.
    Some ins utional investors were also surprised by the size of their allocations, expecting to get far fewer shares. In the process of jockeying for I.P.O. shares, investors will typically ask for a large block, even if they expect to only receive a fraction.
    "We got more shares than we expected, which spooked us," said one portfolio manager, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of upsetting Facebook's underwriters. Concerned that the size of its allocation implied a lack of broad investor support, the manager sold all of the firm's Facebook's shares on Friday. "If it was truly a hot, hot deal, we would have gotten less."
    Facebook's disappointing debut may not bode well for other I.P.O.'s. There are dozens of public offerings in the pipeline, according to Thomson Reuters, including some well-known names like Michaels Stores and Shutterstock, an online stock photography service.
    Ins utional investors like Fidelity Management, burned by Facebook's tumble, may drive a harder bargain in the future.
    Still, the final story for Facebook's stock has yet to be written. Amazon.com quickly tumbled after making its public market debut in May 1997, trading well below its offer price of $18 a share for several months. A year after the I.P.O., Amazon had roughly quadrupled, and on Monday the shares closed at $218.11.

  3. #228
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    LOL, agreed.

    However there is no option chain at all. Anyone know if this has something to do with the IPO.
    I could be completely wrong here, but I've got it in my head that a stock has to trade for 30 days before options become available.

  4. #229
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I could be completely wrong here, but I've got it in my head that a stock has to trade for 30 days before options become available.
    There is no set time...it is determined arbitrarily by the underwriter...usually it's 30-60 days on big IPO's but you have to ask yourself...

    If you were Morgan Stanley and owned 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS of Facebook stock, would you be in a hurry to let the short traders in to play?

  5. #230
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    Thanks for the clarification.

    ...and no. I would not be in a hurry to turn loose the shorters.

  6. #231
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    There is a restriction on shorting right after the IPO but anyone who can issue call or put option of they want to. The reason why we're not seeing any is probably 1) the lack of people who want to be writing put options on facebook 2) it being almost impossible to value the price of a FB option right now because it would be even more approximating and estimating than what's already done when valuing an option. Just one big example being facebook's volatility. The only way one could value facebook's volatility right now is basing it off the volatility of comparable companies which is not reliable.

  7. #232
    Believe. TDuncan4's Avatar
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    I don't understand how Facebook makes its money on ads. Who actually clicks on those things anyway?

  8. #233
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I don't understand how Facebook makes its money on ads. Who actually clicks on those things anyway?
    There are ads?

  9. #234
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    I thought they made their money by selling email information and other data.

  10. #235
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The 5 day chart is appalling. Goes right off the cliff after the IPO. I tried to link it but it breaks. Morgan Stanley is in deep over this one...

  11. #236
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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  12. #237
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Little bit of a dead cat bounce going on today???

  13. #238
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    Yeah it opened up a little but I think the short term trend is still down. With all the talk in the mainstream news about how Morgan Stanley screwed the pooch on the IPO they may be interceding this morning trying to stop the slide and limit the damage before all the retail rats jump ship.

  14. #239
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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  15. #240
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Seems like stupid shareholders are now just pissed that they were stupid.

  16. #241
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    Morgan Stanley to adjust prices on some Facebook trades

    Morgan Stanley told brokers on Wednesday that it is reviewing every Facebook Inc. trade and will make price adjustments for retail customers who paid too much during the social network company's debut last week, according to an internal memo.

    In the memo, Morgan Stanley, lead underwriter of Facebook's initial public offering Friday, also said "many" of the first-day trades have now been processed and are appearing in client accounts. The company did not specify how much it expected to pay in total price adjustments.

    "All orders are currently being reviewed for best execution pricing," the memo obtained by Reuters said. "We expect there will be a number of price adjustments. The largest adjustments will be processed first over the next several days and the remaining adjustments will be completed as quickly and as thoroughly as possible."

    A "very limited number of orders" are pending, but Morgan Stanley told its more than 17,000 brokers that it expects to have remaining orders resolved and booked Wednesday.

    Morgan Stanley confirmed the contents of the memo but declined to elaborate.

    Facebook's highly anticipated market debut Friday was beset by trading glitches on the Nasdaq stock market. The opening of trading in the social networking company's new shares was delayed by about 30 minutes. Shares priced by underwriters at $38 briefly rose to $45 in early trading but then fell to end little changed Friday.

    A significant number of investors at Morgan Stanley and other brokerages were left in limbo -- some as late as Tuesday -- with trade orders that were not processed.

    http://mobile.chicagotribune.com/p.p...%3D0%26DPL%3D3

  17. #242
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    it's just hilarious that a couple of college kids on spurstalk.com predicted all this months in advance while all these assholes got burned

  18. #243
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    There is a restriction on shorting right after the IPO but anyone who can issue call or put option of they want to. The reason why we're not seeing any is probably 1) the lack of people who want to be writing put options on facebook 2) it being almost impossible to value the price of a FB option right now because it would be even more approximating and estimating than what's already done when valuing an option. Just one big example being facebook's volatility. The only way one could value facebook's volatility right now is basing it off the volatility of comparable companies which is not reliable.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/short-...192710970.html

  19. #244
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    The Facebook IPO Cluster

    "Facebook," he said, "is a colossal example of a complete cluster where everybody wins except the ordinary investor."

    Sooner or later, people are going to clue into the fact that one or two big banks, acting in concert with a choice assortment of unscrupulous "preferred investors," can at least temporarily prop up or topple just about anything they want, from Greece to Bear Stearns to Lehman Brothers. And if you can move markets and bet on them at the same time, it's impossible to not make tons of money, which incidentally is made at everyone else's expense. So we should always be on the lookout for any evidence that that sort of coordinated, non-disclosed activity is taking place.

    http://readersupportednews.org/opini...-ipo-clusterfk

  20. #245
    hasta la victoria, siempre cheguevara's Avatar
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    you just can't make this up

    Less than a week after Facebook's (FB) IPO there are already rumors that Facebook is considering a move from the Nasdaq (NDAQ) to the NYSE (NYX).

    According to Peter Schiff of Euro Pacific Capital, switching exchanges will accomplish nothing for Facebook.
    "The problem isn't where it's listed—it's the valuation!" says the author of The Real Crash.


    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

  21. #246
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    Nobody is willing to pay for this crap or at least won't for much longer because of one thing they keep pretending to forget: THE GOING CONCERN ASSUMPTION. People are already starting to deactivate their accounts and curb use, Facebook won't be around forever. It's a social media website, they come and go.

  22. #247
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    People are already starting to deactivate their accounts and curb use
    Link?

  23. #248
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386884,00.asp

    I've been noticing it for a while tbh friends list slowly dwindles as people deactivate there's way less traffic lately too.

  24. #249
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    There's all kinds of info out there really if you don't have a Facebook to see it yourself

    http://news.sky.com/home/technology/article/16011463

    A lot of my friends have shut theirs down I'm also considering it

  25. #250
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386884,00.asp

    I've been noticing it for a while tbh friends list slowly dwindles as people deactivate there's way less traffic lately too.
    I think there may be other reasons you have fewer friends.

    lol June 2011

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