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Stop it. lol Maybe Duncan wasn't the best example."I watch every game he's ever played but never bothered to pay attention to who he's guarding"
But the problem is, Ibaka can't shut down Duncan, so instead of the layup drill you saw, instead you'd get Duncan just destroying Ibaka in the post. Yeah, let's have a top 10 player of all time beat our team instead. Great idea.
Fact is, you need both Ibaka and Perkins on the floor to play better D. But that puts Bonner on the floor and with his outside shooting (or at least the threat of his outside shooting) that pulls his defender (most likely Ibaka) out to the perimeter and away from the paint, which negates his best asset, his shot blocking. If he free lances, the Spurs will rotate the ball to the open shooter. If you switch Perkins and Ibaka, either Duncan scores at will, or Ibaka rotates to stop the penetration caused by the guards, who then lay the ball off to an open Duncan under the basket.
The problem that OKC has is not personnel, it's game plan. They had no answer for the Spurs pick and roll in the 4th.
Ibaka guards Duncan, Duncan scores on the block. Perkins guards Duncan, they pick and roll him to death, or take Ibaka out of the paint with a 3 point shooter.
Stop it. lol Maybe Duncan wasn't the best example."I watch every game he's ever played but never bothered to pay attention to who he's guarding"
Gasol was shooting 3's. I don't know why, but yeah. I'd take Gasol on my team any day because Pop would straighten him out. But Gasol wasn't even trying half the time. Something is definitely wrong with him.
If they go with Ibaka instead of Perkins, and we counter with Bonner - that's not something in our favor in my opinion.
I agree that Bonner could help pull Ibaka out of the paint, but Bonner in the 4th would pee in his pants. Perhaps Ibaka would slip on Bonner's pee puddle, but otherwise I don't think we want Bonner anywhere near crunch time.
So, I think playing Ibaka will still work to their advantage. OKC thrives off of swarming athletic defense. That's their strength. I'm not saying they will win, but when they do well, it's usually because of this. That's their style.
Duncan may not be the best example, but he's the most important one, because, you know, OKC is playing the Spurs.
I don't disagree. It's pick your poison with SA anyways. I like Ibaka on the floor regardless. I think people have taken my claim that Ibaka is a good man defender and automatically started assuming that I believed Ibaka could shut down Duncan. I don't believe that. However, the assumption that Ibaka has no defensive abilities other than weak side is simply inaccurate.
What?! He shot ONE 3 pointer the whole series and the shot clock was winding down. lol
Ibaka isn't a low post player, so if not Bonner, than go small ball with a college PF like Leonard or Jackson. You know, guys who can hit 3s in pressure situations.
OKC doesn't have players that can put their back to the basket and score, so putting a smaller defender on them doesn't hurt the Spurs. And Kahwi is such a good rebounder for his size that it won't hurt the Spurs rebounding much either.
The Spurs strength is their versatility. In that game, I don't think there was a move Brooks could have made that would have won him that game. The Spurs execution was flawless in the 4th.
He was shooting corner 3s, and no it wasn't a shot clock issue. Gasol has been shooting that 3 all season, for some strange reason. Pop would never allow that. Again, Gasol has been off this year. I think he hates Kobe but won't ask for a trade.
I'm sorry, Pau Gasol SHOT ONE 3 POINTER against OKC in the playoffs this year. ONE ATTEMPT. Are you seriously arguing this point? Go look it up. Ibaka manned him up the whole series and held him to 12 ppg.
His defensive ability is weak side help, which in the last game, would have been useless with him being the only big on the court. You need both players on the floor, but the problem is, the Spurs can counter that with great efficiency. I'm not ready to proclaim this team the greatest Spurs team ever (they have to win a le first), but their versatility is amazing.
Ok, so you have Ibaka on Duncan in the Thunder small ball lineup. Duncan is a threat from the high post as well as the low post. In the Spurs pick and roll, Duncan would be the screener forcing Ibaka out of the paint. The Spurs will know that the Thunder WILL NOT want to switch just to keep their shot blocker near the paint. Duncan is a smart player and has 2 decisions, roll hard to the basket or take position on the elbow. If Parker forces the action, Ibaka will have no choice but to chase Parker on the penetration. This could leave Duncan either in prime scoring position moving to the basket w/o Ibaka near, or Duncan with a small on him in the high post/elbow.
Parker can also take the screener wide forcing a switch with Ibaka on him. This is a problem when facing a cerebral team. They will figure out a way. If I can do it, I am pretty sure professionals can.
My stance all along was that he should have been out there with Perk. You're having a hard time focusing on my point. lol
Again, my point was showing Gasol's flaws in his game this year. The Lakers should have pounded the ball to Gasol (in the block not on the perimeter) and Bynum, but instead, Kobe chucked the ball up. Gasol was checked out. , Gasol checked out before the playoffs started. Gasol should have been Finals MVP 2 years ago. But when I saw Gasol play (all season mind you) he just wasn't the same player, and it had nothing to do with physical skills.
And anyway, it's pointless arguing Ibaka vs Gasol, because the only relevant argument is Ibaka vs Duncan, of which, OKC will lose that matchup EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Thunder fans have been crying since the end of that game that Ibaka should have been in the game and not Perkins. So I'm not missing the point, I was arguing against that point.
But I also said that with the way the Spurs were rolling, it wouldn't have mattered. The execution of the game plan was flawless. OKC lost because their execution was crap.
But, I did address your point and how the Spurs could counter it, be it with a stretch 4 named Bonner or Leonard (a college PF) or Jackson. Either way, Ibaka's offensive game is either alley oop or mid range jumper that's hit or miss. Either way, his game wouldn't punish the Spurs for putting a smaller defender on him.
Serge Ibaka sat on the bench for the final 16:01 of Oklahoma City's 101-98 Game 1 loss to the Spurs.
“I think every decision you make, if it doesn't work out, you say, ‘Why'd you do that?' and I'm right (there) with you on that,” said Scott Brooks.
Brooks used a smaller lineup, playing Kevin Durant at the power forward spot to stretch the defense and also forces the opponent to matchup smaller.
“We've done it in the past and have had a lot of success, so you can't really look back and beat yourself up too much … but I will,” Brooks said. “It was nothing against what Serge did.”
The Thunder were outscored 16-2 in terms of points in the paint in the fourth period.
“Going into the next game, I see him playing his normal minutes,” Brooks said.
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...#ixzz1wH5gl3Qr
Get ready to see the Spurs hit a lot more threes. I expect to see Danny Green hit a few
Which means, at best, almost half the people in the league at his position are better individual defenders. In other words, he's only a DPOY candidate because voters don't know about defense, as evidenced by most of the winners over the last ten years.
You aren't suggesting the funk that Gasol was in during the playoffs was due to Ibaka's defense, are you?
I gotta say, you're making a pretty weak case here.
LIke any fan on any other team, we second guess game decisions and what might have possibly worked better in games that went south. Noone really wanted Ibaka out there in place of Perkins, they would have like to see him out there WITH Perkins. I'm well aware SA would have had an answer as they are very versatile, but it's many people's opinion that that lineup would have at least given OKC a little better look.
Alright, noone here is a big Ibaka fan. Your opinion has been noted. Enjoy Game 2.
I like Ibaka just fine. He is a solid player. I just don't think going small with Ibaka would be much different than going small with Perkins. The Spurs are an excellent small ball team. We Spurs fans have gone through a lot of frustration with Coach Pop and his insistance on using the scheme. I guess now in hindsight it payed off. The Spurs WANT small ball. They have used it against big lineups, small lineups, athletic lineups, and it has worked out pretty good for the Spurs this season. The only small lineup that I complain about now is micro ball with Blair at the 5.
Ibaka would have helped in the 4th, I agree.
But the real damage was done by Harden and, in part, Westbrook.
Both looked like they had something to prove, for whatever reason.
In general, Brooks is an OK coach, very organized, but as flexible as a steel rod.
He didn't write in the game book that Harden or Westbrook must sit if they are hurting the team. So they just play, irrespective of what they are doing.
And Fisher, by far far far the best OKC player on Sunday, will sit and watch these two guys force shots, TO etch.
This was unlike Pop, who had Neal move from backup PG to 2, with Parker, and Manu to 3 in the 4th. Spurs have rarely played with that lineup.
It's called feeling for the game.
I have no idea what Brooks is writing in the game book tonight, but I am certain he will stick to that no matter what.
So thanks for that long list of great defensive performances by Ibaka. Your opinion has been noted as being completely devoid of facts to back it up. You won't enjoy game 2.
you know, thunderfan, i appreciated your civility.
Yes but it's too bad Obstructed View had something up his ass the whole time.
I don't know. I don't keep a log book. I contend that he's a pretty decent ball defender. Sure, he has match-ups that he struggles with..then again, who doesn't struggle with guys like Dirk? Dirk went 2-15 against Ibaka in a game this year. He held Dirk in check for long stretches during round 1. He's come a long way from the days when he bit on every pump fake and all a guy had to do was get him up in the air. He's played some real solid man defense this year.
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