Can't just use that kind argument against Miami, it could easily be the same for OKC. It's not like they've been to the big stage before. Miami made the finals just last year.
Could be, however there are more questions about Miami's cast than OKC, and it showed throughout the playoffs, especially against Boston when Miami looked awful and lost 3 straight games, and went 6 with Indy. Of course Bosh was out alot of the time too.
People severely under rating Boshs impact on the Heat, primarily on the defensive end.
That is a fallacy. Sure, in theory they need to do it for "just 4 more games" but that is the deal with things that I mentioned; I really don't think you realize how fluky (for lack of a better word) what okc did vs the Spurs was. Not that they won, but HOW they won.
That would be like me saying Lebron only has to put up 40/15 4 more times to win.
What in particular was so fluky about what OKC did vs. San Antonio? (serious question)
^The timvp thread upstairs had OKC shooting something like 52% on jumpers outside of 15 feet. I don't think it's a fluke though when a ton of them were wide open.
Harden's dagger in game 5 was definitely a bit lucky.
Agreed. While I have Miami winning, I could see it repeating again in the finals given how many wide open jumpers Spoelstra's "Everyone swarm the ball!" defense gives up.
So timvp's thread says the Thunder shot worse than usual from inside 15 feet and better than usual from outside 15 feet. Seems to me like the simple, logical explanation for that is the Spurs focused their defense on stopping the Thunder from getting shots within 15 feet and as a result left more shooters open from beyond 15 feet. Ibaka being wide open from mid range countless times while his defender was helping down low to stop penetration certainly correlates with that explanation.
This. Re ed posters like DPG are going the spursdynasty route (Thunder just hit some fluke shots) in order to rationalize the loss and make it seem like they were less wrong.
When in reality, the spurs made a concerted effort to stop penetration and in doing so, left a bunch of sharp shooters wide ass open.
An NBA player who probably shoots over 10,000 jumpers every year making wide open shots shouldn't happen
Miami will win the series, but not because the Thunder just did some fluke things that are unsustainable. Miami will defend them better than just "pack the paint herp derp and hope they miss wide open shots herp derp" and pose many disadvantages for the thunder.
-For one, Bosh will pull Ibaka out of the paint and outside of his comfort zone, keeping him from playing helpside defense for the block.
-Harden or Westbrook will have to guard Wade, which is a mismatch for the Heat
-Lebron can guard Durant, but Durant can't guard Lebron. He is too strong/physical and Durant lacks the lateral quickness to stay with him
-Same can be said for Thabo, Lebron will eat him alive
If going the spursdynasty route and calling the Thunder "flukes" makes you feel better about being wrong..go for it buddy.
IMO Sefolosha might be able to slow down Wade somewhat or at least make him work. No one can guard LeBron tho on that Thunder team..
Bonner barely played and Diaw sucked ass. Duncan isn't as good of a shooter as Bosh.IMO Sefolosha might be able to slow down Wade somewhat or at least make him work. No one can guard LeBron tho on that Thunder team..
Tbh, if Sefo guards wade, then wtf is guarding Lebron??? crofl
You really think Durant will get eaten alive on D?
Tbh the Thunder should clog the paint...their shooters are no where as good as SA especially in their starting lineup. Maybe we even see the Thunder play some zone like the Mavs last year, idk if they are a good zone team though.
That is a gross mis-understanding of what I was saying and what Timvp's thread alluded too. Also, they weren't as wide open as gheys like MS are saying. That's just a standard default response "if you leave them wide open EVERYTIME!!!!!!".
They weren't wide open everytime. They had some wide open & several contested and hats off to them, they hit. It wasn't the only factor that led to OKC winning, but it was a large one. Despite being open or not, even against bad defenses that type of shooting from that range isn't really something you can duplicate over the long-haul (maybe one series like vs SA, but not overall).
My point is that if OKC gets game planned by MIA the same way SA did and settles for those shots, they will lose. OKC will have to be more proficient from 3 and will have to get to the line more than they did v SA. Plus, since MIA is better defensively than SA, those tough shots they hit vs SA will be even tougher.
I do. He's way too frail and lacking in lateral quickness to hang with Bron.
Pretty to easy to get into a rhythm when you do this tbh.
Spurs weren't a good defensive team. Logic would say that if an average defensive team was successful in keeping the leagues top offensive team out of the paint, they must have REALLY been packing it which would lead to the open looks.
Maybe through your homer glasses it just looked like they weren't wide open and you got upset every time they hit?
this highlights the fallacy. Okc, in particular Ibaka/Collison/Westbrook/Thabo are not sharp shooters. And all year they were presented with a similar distribution of shots and came no where close to hitting them at the clip they did that series. In fact, it was shown okc only had games like they did v the Spurs around 2-3 times this year (meaning those %'s in b2b games) and that was only for a string of 2 games in a row. It's not just okc either, no teams can really sustain that from what I've looked at/seen.
Getting into a rhythm and doing something statistically incredibly difficult are two different things. I didn't say the Spurs were a good defensive team - what they are is a team that doesn't foul as much (Thunder rely heavily on FTA and SA held them to below their average) & they defend the paint well with Tim in there (which again, the numbers vs OKC bear that out). So okc was forced to settle for inefficient shots that they hit at an astounding rate. Again, hats off, but they were forced to settle for shots that I don't believe are sustainable.
Its quite silly to say they were wide open all the time. It's also not the point; even if wide open, they hit at an amazing clip for that type of shot and the people shooting them.
This is an entire year of data, a large sample size. These weren't sharp shooters from that range. Those numbers include playing against really poor defensive teams that presented them numerous open looks:
It wasn't the sole reason SA lost, but a huge one. I'd say the Spurs defense got EXACTLY what they wanted. If okc gets a similar shot distribution vs Mia, it is highly improbable they win.
Also, I'm not arguing Spurs here. I'm talking Heat v OKC. If MIA does the same thing as SA, OKC is in trouble. Lebron/Wade will take some of the looks away and make the tough ones tougher. The key is can MIA defend the paint overall like SA did when Tim was in? Can they keep okc off the line compared to their average? Those things are key.
Lebron mentioned this philosophy several times this playoffs in interviews. When asked about a guy getting hot in the first half, Lebron only spoke in regards to the types of shots allowed, not the result. He assessed the defensive effort in those terms and said if he keeps those guys shooting those types of shots he's good because he knows certain things are sustainable - and he's right which is what makes him an elite defensive anchor.
It's revisionist history to act like the mid range shots Ibaka was making or the 3 pointers Sefolosha was making weren't "wide-ass open." The reason they kept sustaining their shooting was Popovich making no adjustments and hoping they would just start missing the shots he was giving them, when in reality they were gonna keep shooting even better as their confidence and rhythm grew.
I love how Timvp attributes OKC's below average shooting inside 15 feet to
When OKC misses a shot, it's because of the great in Spurs' defense!
When OKC makes a shot, it was some fluky !
They weren't all wide ass open. And we aren't discussing 3-pointers. We are discussing a large amount of a specific type of shot. That's just a default response to someone not paying attention because they saw amazing %'s. It would be like looking at a Lebron boxscore from game 6 & saying his FG % was high because he was wide ass open.It's revisionist history to act like the mid range shots Ibaka was making or the 3 pointers Sefolosha was making weren't "wide-ass open." The reason they kept sustaining their shooting was Popovich making no adjustments and hoping they would just start missing the shots he was giving them, when in reality they were gonna keep shooting even better as their confidence and rhythm grew.
I love how Timvp attributes OKC's below average shooting inside 15 feet to
When OKC misses a shot, it's because of the great in Spurs' defense!
When OKC makes a shot, it was some fluky !
You are missing the point again because you are more interested in scoffing the Spurs and using emoticons vs actually debating and re-watching the games with an eye on what's being discussed.
The entire point is that even taking into consideration the generic "if you leave them wide ass open no duh their confidence will grow and they will make shots!!", average to well below average guys don't automatically become "sharp shooters" when presented with the most inefficient shot in basketball. They might hit some, but not put up off the charts numbers for several games in a row. They played plenty of bad defenses during the year and were presented with a similar shot distribution - why then were their numbers so much lower?
The Spurs during the regular season gave up a FG% higher than the league average (they had the 3rd highest opponent's FG% among playoff teams), so if the Spurs defend the paint really well like you say, it means their perimeter defense leaves something to be desired. I guess all the inefficient shots teams made on the Spurs at a clip higher than the league average was a fluke too.
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