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  1. #101
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'm not simply stating how bad the Cavs were..
    ...in an attempt to denigrate Parker's accomplishment.

  2. #102
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    didn't have to, they sucked...





    30 with a lot of miles on the tires he has maybe 3 years left...
    steve nash has more mileage and he is still playing at high level

  3. #103
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Let's not denigrate his accomplishments either.
    ...in an attempt to denigrate Parker's accomplishment.
    Which is it???

  4. #104
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    I guess I need to know what you mean by "managed."
    Organize. Have a vision.

    Promote individual superstars, who sell worldwide, over teams, which sell less.
    That's no easy task, because this isn't tennis, it's a team sport.
    Make sure big markets have profitable, successful teams.
    I can't remember when was last time in WC finals there were no teams from the top 10 cities.
    Make sure some well managed small market teams get their share of success.
    Smallville is part of the market and will istinctively feel well for OKC now as they felt well about SA before.
    But one is enough.
    You don't want to see Indiana-Milwakee and Denver-Portland, all of the sudden. If that means refs make a few "bad calls", so be it.
    All actors are making a huge amount of money, they are in one single pond, all with a vested interest in not pissing in their 1989 Chateau Petrus.

    Wouldn't this make perfect sense?
    Why on earth you wouldn't be saying ANYTHING about the "bad calls" if it's anything different from this.

    Asa rule of thumb, you know there is amafia when nobody says anything about it.

  5. #105
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    That was one of his several accomplishments. If you'd like to denigrate others one at a time I will use the singular term as well.

    Is that clear enough to you?

  6. #106
    Make a trade steal
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    he was gassed from playing to many minutes the game before
    pop should not have started him those last two games
    sj should have started
    He had two days rest. How many days of rest does he need?

  7. #107
    Born Slippy
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    This is the problem with analyzing a game strictly based off of statistics, although I'm guessing you were doing so just for the sake of doing it and realizing that statistics can only tell you so much.

    The turnovers had a bigger impact on the Thunder winning than you contend, even if the stats say it only cost the Spurs 2 points per game:

    1) First off, you can't only look at how many points it cost the Spurs through a reduced number of possessions. You have to consider how many incremental points the Thunder scored as a result of the many layups and dunks generated by turnovers. You have to look at the point swing instead of just one side of the equation and a team that forces a lot of turnovers will statisticall get more fast break points.

    2) Most importantly, any NBA player is going to tend to be more effective shooting perimeter jumpers when they are getting some easier baskets generated by fast breaks. These easy baskets energized Durant and Harden and gave them more confidence. Jeff Van Gundy is always a fan of saying when you have a player in a slump, the last thing you want to do is give them an easy layup to get them going.

    Also, the issue with this analysis you've prepared is that it doesn't consider how wide open the Thunder's perimeter looks were compared to the looks they got throughout the season that resulted in the lower percentage. That is something that realistically can only be gleaned from a subjective analysis of the game, although in today's day and age perhaps someone actually tracks this data.

    The Thunder being more athletic than the Spurs was definitely a major reason they won. The Spurs got beat off the dribble more than the Thunder did which resulted in cleaner looks for the Thunder and thus a higher percentage. For all the talk about Ibaka going 11 for 11, he shot about 4-5 dunks/layups/tipins and the 6-7 jumpers were each wide open looks. And players shoot much higher % when they are wide open.

    Their athleticism is also a major reason why the Spurs unbelievable ball movement looked more mortal as the series went on. Lots of great athletes disrupting passing lanes and closing out on shooters.

    Another big reason, and I think the main reason they prevailed, is that the Thunder moved the ball much better than they typically do. I think they actually soaked in a lot of the Spurs sensational ball movement in 2nd half Game 1/ Game 2 and really tried to emulate this team approach in Games 3-6. In so doing, they elevated themselves from a very good to a great team. The question remains as to whether they will play like this against an inferior Heat team that may not really force them to play to that higher level in order to win.

    You didn't include the Thunder's assist numbers in this analysis, but I'd imagine their assists/FG's ratio went up quite a bit in Games 3-6 vs. Games 1-2.

    Great analysis though... It was a very interesting take and really drilled in at at a level you rarely see on ESPN, local beatwriters, etc approach.

    The Spurs are an incredible organization and it was a very fun series for NBA fans to watch. Great basketball!
    well put.

  8. #108
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    Double post.

  9. #109
    One TEAM One Goal siraulo23's Avatar
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    great write-up, first half of game 6 i thought their hot shooting will finally regress to the mean but nope, they were on fire again to start the 3rd quarter.

    Then in the 4th the 3 from harden, the 3 and pullup 2 pointer bank shot from fisher to seal the deal... ughhhhh

  10. #110
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    I brought out the 2006 Mavs comparison before the series and that's basically how the Spurs lost that series as well. Pop's defensive system is susceptible to teams who shoot extraordinarily well from the long two-point range plus get to the line a lot.
    Gosh, we keep running into teams who shoot well. I think you'd have to add Phoenix to the list of teams who have killed us from outside. I wonder what Memphis % from outside was...Randolph didn't seem to miss as I recall.

    If the same thing keeps happening over and over again, maybe it's time to change/re-evaluate. One of the issues with this team is rigidity/fragility. Spurs play one way - beat that, and they meltdown.

    A commitment to basketball fundamentals allows you more flexibility. Gimmicks on the other hand, lead to regular-season wonders and predictable playoff meltdowns.

  11. #111
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    That was one of his several accomplishments. If you'd like to denigrate others one at a time I will use the singular term as well.

    Is that clear enough to you?
    Tony's had a good career as a Spur never said other wise (Accomplishments)

    Tony had a mediocre WCF.. That should have been clear to you 1 page ago or when you watched the series..

  12. #112
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    Gosh, we keep running into teams who shoot well. I think you'd have to add Phoenix to the list of teams who have killed us from outside. I wonder what Memphis % from outside was...Randolph didn't seem to miss as I recall.

    If the same thing keeps happening over and over again, maybe it's time to change/re-evaluate. One of the issues with this team is rigidity/fragility. Spurs play one way - beat that, and they meltdown.

    A commitment to basketball fundamentals allows you more flexibility. Gimmicks on the other hand, lead to regular-season wonders and predictable playoff meltdowns.
    You always want to try throwing a team different looks to keep them off balance on offense.

  13. #113
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Parker was the only one attacking the basket in the 2nd half of game 6. parker made some nice moves and scores taking it inside. Lots of other players standing around the perimeter looking to hit the perimeter shot. Where was Manu?
    Uh? Tony was 4-13 in the second half... 2 assists... Manu was 2-5...

    tbh, the only guy shooting decent was Jack...

  14. #114
    Allenhu Joshbar DeadlyDynasty's Avatar
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    if the refs had reffed better, the spurs mighta had a chance
    ^
    mentally weak

  15. #115
    Believe.
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    It was one of the craziest series i have ever seen. When you got sharp shooters like Harden , Westbrook, Durant not missing anything when it matters most you can maybe get through that and surivive.. Ibaka though going like 15/15 in game 4... That is like Shaq shooting 12/13 from the line.. . you have to live with something when you face a team like OKC..

    In spite of all the sharp shooting and guys that made plays for OKC if Mr. Parker had not vanished games 3-5..

    Spurs would be in the finals...
    Paker vanished from games 3-5? you sure it wasn't because Thabo Sefolosha? Parker is not a top 10 player lol

  16. #116
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    He had two days rest. How many days of rest does he need?
    one more day rest he would have been ok

  17. #117
    Ruffy RuffnReadyOzStyle's Avatar
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    In the aftermath of the San Antonio Spurs watching their glorious 20-game winning streak end with four straight losses, many theories have arisen regarding why the Spurs suffered such a violent reversal of fortune. A number of the hypotheses pointed to the Oklahoma City Thunder being younger, longer and more athletic and eventually overwhelming the older, veteran-reliant Spurs. Other theories have Oklahoma City maturing from an isolation-heavy collection of players to a team-first unit right before the nation’s eyes.

    While those aspects hold some merit, the statistics point to a much more straightforward reason as to why San Antonio ended up losing the series. More on that later.

    First of all, let’s look at what didn’t cause the Spurs to lose. Despite the Thunder holding an athleticism advantage at literally every position, rebounding wasn’t an issue in this series. The Spurs retrieved 76.4% of the available defensive rebounds, which is an even higher mark than their league-best regular season number. On the other end, San Antonio’s offensive rebounding percentage was 23.6% -- a rate close to their regular season average.

    Although Game 6 featured some horrible calls an unfortunate whistle, overall the Thunder didn’t win the series at the free throw line. OKC shot .315 free throws per field goal attempt, which is down from the regular season rate of .333. The Spurs obviously hoped that they would be able to keep the Thunder off the line even more than they did since they were so good at doing that during the regular season (allowing only .221 FTA/FGA, second best in the NBA), however this wasn’t the difference in the series.

    When looking at San Antonio’s offense as a whole, it’s difficult to lay much blame on that end of the court. The Spurs turned it over too much. Their passing stagnated as the series progressed. Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili disappeared at most inopportune times. Tim Duncan looked 50 years old to begin the series. Many of the role players shriveled in the bright lights. The way Pop coached the final two games was questionable. All of that is true. However, despite all those negatives, the offense was still rolling. Outside of the Game 3 blowout, the Spurs scored 108.7 points per 100 possessions – an even better rate than their league-leading regular season rate of 108.5. It’s very easy to nitpick what happened on the offensive end but -- statistically speaking -- the offense was even more potent than expected. It could have been better, undoubtedly, but the offense should have been good enough.

    Defensively, the Spurs weren’t all bad. In fact, their interior defense was fantastic. At the rim, the Thunder connected on only 57.3% of their shots. Considering that they typically shoot 65.6% from that distance, Duncan and the rest of the team did a wonderful job of shutting down the paint.

    Extending the area of focus out further, San Antonio’s defense was very good within fifteen feet of the basket. From fifteen feet and in, the Thunder shot only 48.5%. During the regular season, they shot 56.6% from that range. That's a colossal drop of 16.7%. Thus, even though the Thunder have breathtaking athletes, it's difficult to see the athleticism advantage in the stats alone.

    So, how did the Spurs lose the series if the offense was fine, the rebounding was solid, the free throws weren’t murderous and the interior defense was great? The Thunder shot the damn lights out from the perimeter. It’s just sickening (for a Spurs fan, at least) how well they shot the ball.

    The Thunder made 52.7% of their two-pointers outside of 15 feet for the series. Normally, OKC shoots 42.6% from that range. Normally, the Spurs allow their opponents to shoot 40.6% from that range. But, unfortunately for the Spurs, the Thunder’s long-range shooting was abnormally deadly this series. Yes, San Antonio gave up some perimeter looks by design, but 52.7% isn’t sustainable by any team (or any player, for that matter) over the long haul. That said, give the Thunder credit. Their players stepped up and knocked down the most inefficient shots in the game of basketball at a shockingly efficient rate.

    Oklahoma City’s marksmanship extended beyond the three-point line. The Thunder shot 40.4% on three-pointers for the series, which is up from their regular season accuracy (36%) and much better than they shot in the first two rounds (even though the Lakers and Mavs are poor at defending the three-point line and the Spurs are elite). Again, give the Thunder all the credit.

    How much did OKC’s shooting from the perimeter influence this series? If the Thunder shoot their usual percentage from the perimeter, they would have scored 37 fewer points -- or 99.7 points per game instead of 105.8. Do you think that would have made a difference? Yeah, so do I.

    On one hand, the Spurs can take some solace in knowing they lost the series due to one of the least controllable factors in the game of basketball. But unfortunately, the other hand tells us a loss is a loss and a missed golden opportunity is a missed golden opportunity.


    Shooting Percentage on Two-Pointers From 15 Feet and Out







    Thanks very much for that as it confirms what I thought I saw and have been telling people - OKC were playing out of their minds, specifically by hitting outside shots they usually wouldn't. Oh, and TOs killed us at crucial times, the refs didn't help, but yeah, OKC were unbeatable because they all shot the lights out. That actually makes sense to me and explains why we lost completely winnable games 4-6, each of which were were in with a good shot at up until the last minute.

    That is freakin depressing since if we replayed the series tomorrow the Spurs would probably win it. Faaaark.

  18. #118
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Paker vanished from games 3-5? you sure it wasn't because Thabo Sefolosha? Parker is not a top 10 player lol
    parker is greater then westbrook

  19. #119
    Believe. mingus's Avatar
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    Paker vanished from games 3-5? you sure it wasn't because Thabo Sefolosha? Parker is not a top 10 player lol
    Sefelosha is a damn good defender. Maybe the best perimiter since Bruce. No doubt he disrupted Parker. But Sefelosha is no more the reason Parker dissapeared than Jason Kidd was in game 6 of the '03 Finals, Gary Payton in the '04 WCS, or Mke Coney in the first round last year. Parker has moments--and this why he is not a superstar--where he second guesses himself, in effect neutralizing himself. More than Sefelosha or anybody that's guarded him in the past--outside of Devin Harris--when he's played like , Parker is his own worst enemy. The difference between now and 5 years ago? Duncan and Manu were in their primes and usually bailed him out, particularly Duncan.

  20. #120
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Sefelosha is a damn good defender. Maybe the best perimiter since Bruce. No doubt he disrupted Parker. But Sefelosha is no more the reason Parker dissapeared than Jason Kidd was in game 6 of the '03 Finals, Gary Payton in the '04 WCS, or Mke Coney in the first round last year. Parker has moments--and this why he is not a superstar--where he second guesses himself, in effect neutralizing himself. More than Sefelosha or anybody that's guarded him in the past--outside of Devin Harris--when he's played like , Parker is his own worst enemy. The difference between now and 5 years ago? Duncan and Manu were in their primes and usually bailed him out, particularly Duncan.
    Agree with every word...

  21. #121
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Tony's had a good career as a Spur never said other wise (Accomplishments)

    Tony had a mediocre WCF.. That should have been clear to you 1 page ago or when you watched the series..
    Denigrate, denigrate, denigrate.

  22. #122
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    But Sefelosha is no more the reason Parker dissapeared than Jason Kidd was in game 6 of the '03 Finals
    Only three spurfans watched that game because only three can remember what actually happened.

    It's do ented.

  23. #123
    PRICELESS SPURS FAN polandprzem's Avatar
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    What?

    OKC took advantage of the spurs biggest weakness?

  24. #124
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    From Tom Haberstroh:

    OKC's shooting pct from 15+ feet (41.6%) is the highest for any team entering the Finals since 1997-98 (UTH).

  25. #125
    Veteran dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    What?

    OKC took advantage of the spurs biggest weakness?
    Yeah Tony Parker dissappearing..

    Grizzlies did the same..

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