Who's haunted more by the Thunder? Portland or Seattle?

[Killakobe81]

Im not a stat geek, but I also believe that one of the nerds (Hollinger/Pruti? not sure) looked at projections based on players that rebounded and scored at the level Durant did and projected Durant to be the better player, IIRC.

Obviously size trumps perimeter players in MOST cases. But how many perimeter players with KD's wingspan could handle, shoot and rebound?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Oden was viewed as the more "ready" of the two players. That's not at issue. However, Durant had a much higher ceiling than Oden coming out of college. Also, Killa was right about the Simmons article pointing out that Oden's legs aren't symmetrical. That wouldn't bug me in the mid-to-late first round, but you're talking about a franchise player with the #1 overall pick. If Durant's strength was an issue, you put him in an NBA strength and conditioning program. I also can't imagine Oden was checked out by many team's doctors, so I'm sure most squads assumed he was fully healthy (not including the wrist) coming out of college.

more revisionist history saying Durant had a higher ceiling. People considered Oden to have Hakeem Olajuwon potential. Also more hindsight saying they should have detected his knee problem, while not remember what his specific knee problem was. He ended up discovering he needed microfracture surgery during the summer league, microfracture surgery isn't something you discover during predraft physicals/workouts. He had no knee injuries to speak of when he was drafted, it's revisionist history to pretend that wasn't the case or to pretend that one leg being a fraction of an inch longer than the other was anything more than something Bill Simmons talked about in an article while everyone else didn't see it as a big deal.

You're not fooling anyone by pretending that in 2007, you believed Oden having one leg longer than the other was something that you wouldn't use more than a mid-late 1st rounder on. Please explain how having one leg longer than the other directly led to his knee problems.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Maybe because I live in Texas (Dallas area) the perception i had was different. I think being in Big 12 country seeing so many of his games may have given me more chances to see how special he was. Yes, I do remember folks talking about his bench press but I remember Kenny Smith and other folks talking about how a ball does not weigh so much and he how he was a great natural scorer. Did I think Durant would be a 3x scoring champ already? No. But I distinctly recall defending his skinny frame to Jamstone and others who worried about his durability. IIRC, I said he struck me as the type to be skinny strong and durable a la Reggie Miller.

I wasn't talking about whether or not the worries about Durant's skinny frame were warranted (obviously they weren't), I was talking about the fact THERE WERE predraft worries about Durant's frame which is all that's relevant to whether or not Portland was stupid at the time for picking Oden.

[baseline bum]

I thought it was pretty obvious Durant was a transcendent talent in his year at Texas, but I would have still taken Oden and I'd be surprised if anything other than 30 of the 30 NBA GMs would have done the same. Oden was considered the best HS bigman since Kareem. He was like taking Drummond, adding two inches, and putting a legit motor inside.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

a legit motor and a brain that's bigger than a walnut

[baseline bum]

After reading that article a couple of months ago I'm not sure Oden has much more than Drummond in the brain department tbh. Maybe less.

[baseline bum]

Besides, if someone can win MVP with the vocabulary and delivery of a nine year-old, exactly how much does brainpower really mean in the league?

[tlongII]

God I'm sick of these threads!

[baseline bum]

God I'm sick of these threads!

Which great talent you think your boys will pass over this time around?

[da_suns_fan]

Theres a great quote in that Robin Williams thriller "One Hour Photo":

"The things we fear most are the things that have already happened."

Thats why I think Portland might have it worse. Regardless of what was said at the draft, the fact is that they had the number one pick and they chose wrong.

AGAIN.

[da_suns_fan]

Theres a great quote in that Robin Williams thriller "One Hour Photo":

"The things we fear most are the things that have already happened."

Thats why I think Portland might have it worse. Regardless of what was said at the draft, the fact is that they had the number one pick and they chose wrong.

AGAIN.

[VBM]

You're not fooling anyone by pretending that in 2007, you believed Oden having one leg longer than the other was something that you wouldn't use more than a mid-late 1st rounder on. Please explain how having one leg longer than the other directly led to his knee problems.

Not saying that. I'm saying if I had the #1 pick in the draft, I'd be paranoid as about who I would draft. In fact that probably was a big reason Pritchard went with a big. Again, if the biggest knock on Durant was that he was too skinny, that just goes to show how little Portland felt about its strength and conditioning program. A 6'11" forward with the speed of a point guard and nearly limitless shooting range in a league that doesn't allow handchecks vs. a big man in a league that was becoming less reliant on them (especially in the west). Secondly, Portland had already gone through the talented big vs. talented guard thing with Bowie/Jordan. They should have just gone with the other side for s and giggles.

[djohn2oo8]

Theres a great quote in that Robin Williams thriller "One Hour Photo":

"The things we fear most are the things that have already happened."

Thats why I think Portland might have it worse. Regardless of what was said at the draft, the fact is that they had the number one pick and they chose wrong.

AGAIN.

I really don't think it mattered who they took. Had Durant gone there he probably would have had a career ending injury.

[VBM]

I really don't think it mattered who they took. Had Durant gone there he probably would have had a career ending injury.

The question remains: why hasn't Portland's entire medical staff been axed?

[djohn2oo8]

The question remains: why hasn't Portland's entire medical staff been axed?

It's more about the curse than the staff. Bowie, Walton, Oden, Roy. Joel Pzrybilla fell in the shower and had to have surgery.

[JoeTait75]

Remember also, Oden was coming off the 2007 le game in which he basically all over a Florida frontcourt that included Joakim Noah, Al Horford and Marrise Speights.

IIRC Bill Simmons was the only national writer pimping Durant at #1.

[tesseractive]

a big man in a league that was becoming less reliant on them (especially in the west).

Is that because having a great big man wasn't important, though, or because there weren't enough great big men?

Secondly, Portland had already gone through the talented big vs. talented guard thing with Bowie/Jordan.

OK, but nobody argued that Olajuwon should have gone after Jordan. IIRC, the consensus at the time was that Oden was the best big man prospect since Duncan.

[VBM]

Is that because having a great big man wasn't important, though, or because there weren't enough great big men?

Having a "great" big man was a luxury, not a necessity. Portland was just so used to Shaq going ape on them year after year. When he got traded east, the need for a great big (versus a great guard/forward) diminished.


OK, but nobody argued that Olajuwon should have gone after Jordan. IIRC, the consensus at the time was that Oden was the best big man prospect since Duncan.

Sure, but bigs are very hit or miss (see Darko, Yao to an extent, Kwame. Dwight is probably the last big to be deemed a true success, and Deandre Jordan and Demarcus Cousins will be good, but are they franchise players? The era of big men leading their teams is dying. Also, the most highly regarded draft of recent times was 2003. LeBron, Melo and Wade. Sure Bosh was in the mix, but it was those perimeter guys who completely changed the trajectory of their teams. Durant, even if he wasn't seen as a LeBron talent, definitely had flashes of a Melo or Wade-type impact coming out of college.

[tlongII]

We got #6 and #11 this year and we're sure to get 2 quality players. We'll be back.

[Budkin]

Seattle because they made the right pick and then lost him and their entire team to another city.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Remember also, Oden was coming off the 2007 le game in which he basically all over a Florida frontcourt that included Joakim Noah, Al Horford and Marrise Speights.

IIRC Bill Simmons was the only national writer pimping Durant at #1.

Oden was by far the best individual player of the 2007 tournament. In addition to ting all over Florida in the finals (the rest of his team laying an egg), he outplayed Georgetown and the Roy Hibbert + Jeff Green front court in the semis.

(sidenote: I think Speights came a year later, don't think he was on that team)

But yeah, people in this thread are acting like Simmons' opinion was the popular opinion.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Not saying that. I'm saying if I had the #1 pick in the draft, I'd be paranoid as about who I would draft. In fact that probably was a big reason Pritchard went with a big. Again, if the biggest knock on Durant was that he was too skinny, that just goes to show how little Portland felt about its strength and conditioning program. A 6'11" forward with the speed of a point guard and nearly limitless shooting range in a league that doesn't allow handchecks vs. a big man in a league that was becoming less reliant on them (especially in the west). Secondly, Portland had already gone through the talented big vs. talented guard thing with Bowie/Jordan. They should have just gone with the other side for s and giggles.

"6'11" forward with the speed of a point guard" is a description I could use for countless players.

The biggest pre-draft knock you have on Oden is, "Teh leg is longer than teh other leg!" when I'm willing to bet you don't have the slightest idea of what negative effect that could have on his knees, or if it has any effect on his knees at all for that matter. Again, hindsight is 20/20, and it's stupid to pretend that you knew Oden over Durant would be Bowie over Jordan part 2.

[mavs>spurs]

Better to have a team than to not have one at all.

Also, 9 times out of 10 you go with the big man in a draft, they are harder to come by. Most teams would have picked Oden.

[Killakobe81]

Oden was by far the best individual player of the 2007 tournament. In addition to ting all over Florida in the finals (the rest of his team laying an egg), he outplayed Georgetown and the Roy Hibbert + Jeff Green front court in the semis.

(sidenote: I think Speights came a year later, don't think he was on that team)

But yeah, people in this thread are acting like Simmons' opinion was the popular opinion.

No Simmons opinion went against, the grain and that was my point. Me and VBM are saying we are one of the few who felt Oden was good, but Durant had the potential to be special. I'm not shutting on the Blazers for following the best big man theory, as you say at least 28 GMs would do the same. I'm just giving myself props for saying I woulda took Durant. Oden to me seemed to be a poor man's Alonzo Mourning or that to me was his ceiling. I never saw David Robinson (as some projected) in his game. As for Durant I never saw Kobe or even Iceman I thought more Dirk 2.0. Never thought he would be this good this fast.

[skut_farkus]

Looking back at what we know now im sure they wouldnt of followed sandusky into the showers and the blazers wouldnt of picked oden. But at the time they both seemed like a good idea