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One more pro-toll vote here.
So everyone else in here is a proponent of toll roads?
One more pro-toll vote here.
Here is what I know. The original cost (back in 2004) to just begin this construction which included a bridge over redland road, a bridge over evans road, and expansion of the existing highway from 1604 to Stone Oak cost 84 million. That didn't include anything at the interchange of 1604/281 just yet.
The new plan calls for construction well past stone oak, several more bridges, and none of this would even include 1604 yet. Furthermore, construction costs since 2004 have pretty much doubled. So, just for the portion that they were gonna do back in 2004, you are probably now looking at roughly 150 million or so.
So your 50 million a year isn't even putting a dent in the overall project.
Honestly, I don't even live there anymore, but since TxDot isn't going to build anything that actually helps congestion without the assistance of private companies because they don't have any money, then yes, I think a reasonable person would support the toll road construction because they are tired of being stuck in traffic for an extra hour per day.So everyone else in here is a proponent of toll roads?
And don't get me wrong here, non toll roads would be preferred, but since the powers that be were so brilliant in the 60's and didn't think anyone would ever move way out to 1604, we now have a problem that can't be fixed without them.
Oh, and TxDot can go itself. That's the most poorly run organization I've ever dealt with. There is a reason they're broke, and it's not a tax issue.
we figure if you're against it, then the smart thing is to be for it.So everyone else in here is a proponent of toll roads?
I figured that was why...
I'd root against puppies and children if it meant rooting against that queen of all soccer moms, Hall.I figured that was why...
My two cents:
I hate the idea of toll roads for several simple reasons.
1.Why create another system of taxes to fund something that already has multiple pre-existing means of revenue? I rather pay a higher gas tax, more for vehicle registration, more for inspections, a higher sales tax, or any other CURRENT tax method. Why is necessary to create a new department with all of the overhead, salaries, facilities, and bureaucracy? To me, that is a waste. Why build a toll booth that I have to pay for, rather than raise the existing tax?
2. Why build roads that will not be fully utilized by the public? As in, only people that can afford the tolls can drive there. I would understand this only if the road is new and only if it were used by only a small portion of the population, like a bridge to an island. To me, adding lanes is not a new road. A new road is one that links areas that were not previously connected.
3. To me, it is a hassle. Having to keep track of toll account, the passes, even the tiny amount of inconvenience of having to switch to the proper toll/non-toll lane is too much.
4. If a private company is made responsible for the toll system, then the publics (toll payers) are forking over for the profits for what traditionally (at least locally) was tax payer funded.
Minor issues I have with tolls are that I don’t drive but a mile on 1604 every day to work. I believe one of the proposals includes adding toll lanes to that stretch. I can already foresee the construction headaches caused by this just to add toll lanes that aren’t needed in the area.
I haven't kept up with this too much (I'll admit), but is it still true that they are going to completely bypass Encino Rio with this construction? I know that this was the deal back in 2005 or so. This would force everyone in Encino Park (my parents included) to go up to evans and enter there. That would be a royal cluster .
On the other hand, my parents have been talking about moving to lake LBJ anyway, so that might finally push them to do it.
I'm not sure either, but it would have just made encino rio folks drive up and do a turnaround under a bridge at Evans.
Having said that, didn't the solution of how they have it set up now with all the traffic lights do the same thing to your parents?
No, you can turn left onto 281 S from encino rio even after they installed those ridiculous lights.
Got ya.
I never did quite understand the logic behind an entrance at Redland instead of Encino Rio. Maybe it was a spacing issue because Evans has to have it's own entrance.
Not positive though.
Because our collective representatives don't have the balls to increase the nearly two decade-stagnant gas tax (or any of the others you mention) for fear that the right-wing "NO NEW TAXES" mob will kick them out the next election. And not enough people support the requisite higher gas taxes to eliminate this threat. I'd gladly pay 2-3x more state tax per gallon but everyone wants to scream about the 20-40 cents per gallon that would cost because BY GOD I HAVE A RIGHT TO NEVER EVER PAY HIGHER TAXES NO MATTER WHAT.
The existing lanes will continue to be free and available to those who cannot or will not pay tolls.2. Why build roads that will not be fully utilized by the public? As in, only people that can afford the tolls can drive there. I would understand this only if the road is new and only if it were used by only a small portion of the population, like a bridge to an island. To me, adding lanes is not a new road. A new road is one that links areas that were not previously connected.
It's a breeze. You get a transponder that goes on your car and debits your account whenever you go through a toll booth. After driving a route a few times, the new driving behavior gets engrained.3. To me, it is a hassle. Having to keep track of toll account, the passes, even the tiny amount of inconvenience of having to switch to the proper toll/non-toll lane is too much.
At least if you have TxDOT building/maintaining it, this won't be a concern. And the least expensive toll roads in Austin are those that TxDOT built.4. If a private company is made responsible for the toll system, then the publics (toll payers) are forking over for the profits for what traditionally (at least locally) was tax payer funded.
Look, I'm not crazy about having to pay for toll roads, either, but the simple fact of the matter is that our government doesn't have the guts to do it the right way. You can either not build anything, and suffer like Austin does downtown where I-35 hasn't changed in 30 years, or address some of the problems with toll roads.
San Antonio has been MUCH more fortunate with its highway system than any other major metro in the state. Look at what has been done with 35 and 10 downtown, with 410 on the northside, new interchanges at 410/281 and 281/1604, and you haven't had to pay tolls for any of it. Congratulations! The rest of us in Austin, in Dallas/Ft. Worth, in Houston, and even some smaller metros (Tyler, Brownsville, etc.) are stuck with toll roads as the only way to get almost any improvements. It's simply time for you to do what the rest of us have been forced to do since the Perry administration took over state highway planning.
Whatever engineer designed that stoplight system should have his license revoked and be forced to live on the east side of Evans or TPC Parkway.
just stupid.
I don't disagree with you, but I'm not convinced that raising taxes would do it. If the money that the government collected in existing taxes now would be put to use where it was all originally intended to be put to use, and it still didn't work, I'd be all for raising taxes, but since that is never going to happen.....
Also, they need to fire every single TxDot employee and start over.....wait, scratch that, just fire the guys in charge and start over with them, it would be a good start.
I heard from people that still live around the area that the light system helped some.
Guess not.
I don't live out there, so if they say it helps rush hour traffic, I won't argue.
I would however, like to hear or see how when turning south on to 281 from Evans or TPC that being forced to go north first helps traffic flow.
I have some business that takes me out that way on a semi regular basis, and I just don't get it.
The company who installed them is based out of the building I work in. I used to see one of the main guys on smoke breaks and I asked him WTF are they thinking and basically he told me that the guy who sold them to the state kept showing how well the system works on some road in NC, but didn't talk about how that road has less than half the traffic of 281. He went on to say that he thought it was a stupid idea, but didn't mind the money rolling in. He also had su ions of "intrigue" surrounding the approval of that project, but who wouldn't have such su ions about something so stupid.
He is currently in charge of that project over on bulverde road going to 1604. FWIW he told me (about 1.5 or 2 years ago) that it was a 2-3 year project. I said, "Great! I will let my parents know that they will be able to use Bulverde road again in about 8 or 9 years".
Toll Roads
SA Town is growing up finally.
In other news,
Why then is there still construction on DeZavala?
How got damn long does it take to do work on a ing surface street? If this were being done by a private company they would have been fired long before. Its always fun in that you can determine what is a public and what is a private project due simply by time it takes to get the down.
The mother ers that run these transportation agencies are ing corrupt mother ers who could care less about actually getting done in a timely manner. ing stupid.
Much as I dislike Haircut and his governance (fiscal and otherwise), toll roads as a necessary by-product of rapid growth have been a TX reality for decades.
They came in with city crews about 4 years ago to install curbs on my street. It was only about a quarter of a mile long. They had millions of dollars of really nice equipment on the job that they never fired up before 9am and quit before 3. It took them a ing year and a half!
I haven't been up there in years, but if its the same as the new system on 1604 out by Bandera then it makes compete sense to change traffic flow. There are so many places in the US where you can't make left turns in high traffic areas because of the amount of slow down it causes.
how they allow these ing contractors to not have a set deadline is beyond me.
corrupt mother ers.
I live out near Bandera/1604 but I don't know what system exactly you are referring to.
I don't know of any freak system like the one out by Encino Park.
Nice neighborhoods off of Evans, but you'd almost have to pay me to live out 281n past 1604.
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