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  1. #126
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I read your explanation. However, you are not only taking a car off the free lane and putting it on the HOV/toll lane, but you are also taking a second (or third) car off of the free lane.

    You are still exacting a "cost" from the person on the highway, you are just not exacting a financial cost. Talk to 10 people at random and ask them if there were an HOV lane if they would find a friend or coworker to carpool with. You would probably get 8 or 9 "no's".

    So both ways one has to pay a price. One is in dollars and one is in (I don't know) comfort? Dollars saved?
    My response is that there is enough unsatisfied demand (people who aren't using the highway now, that would if there were spots), that you could double the size of the highway and it would still be congested.

    If your argument is that there won't be enough people HOV'ing it to add congestion to Toll Lane, then that might be the case. It's a dangerous set of dice to roll though. You're either right, and that's great. Or you're wrong and you either A) have the scenario I described or B) deal with the political show of removing the HOV rights.

  2. #127
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Yeah I feel bad for everyone I see in a heavy ass MTB when I go past them. Then again I feel like when the guy in the MTB blows past me.
    I would love a road bike, but my MTB was free and it's all I have. Also, I assume it is accelerating my endurance/getting in shape, since it is 40 lbs and has 2 inch wide tires with knobs. LOL

    Once I get on a road bike I should be able to fly.

  3. #128
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    San Diego has a system of HOV/HOT lanes. This also has the added benefit of using that lane space to its full efficiency.
    Like I said, I like HOV lanes. I really like toll lanes. I think the ideal solution incorporates both (and I agree about the benefits of an HOV lane encouraging preferred behavior).

  4. #129
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I would love a road bike, but my MTB was free and it's all I have. Also, I assume it is accelerating my endurance/getting in shape, since it is 40 lbs and has 2 inch wide tires with knobs. LOL

    Once I get on a road bike I should be able to fly.
    Road biking on an MTB is one of the best ways I can think of to lose weight or get/stay in shape! My first bike was an MTB and I didn't know much about actual MTB riding, so I was road riding. Lost about 30 lbs (which has all come back since then, and more). Then I got in to MTB and now I think road riding is boring as . :\

  5. #130
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Its hard to forecast future traffic. If the price of gas goes up, then that has a huge effect etc etc.

    San Antonio has some of the worst history with traffic. See 410 and 37 interchange.

  6. #131
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    My response is that there is enough unsatisfied demand (people who aren't using the highway now, that would if there were spots), that you could double the size of the highway and it would still be congested.

    If your argument is that there won't be enough people HOV'ing it to add congestion to Toll Lane, then that might be the case. It's a dangerous set of dice to roll though. You're either right, and that's great. Or you're wrong and you either A) have the scenario I described or B) deal with the political show of removing the HOV rights.
    Or you just raise the price.

  7. #132
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Like I said, I like HOV lanes. I really like toll lanes. I think the ideal solution incorporates both (and I agree about the benefits of an HOV lane encouraging preferred behavior).
    With the San Diego reference I was just giving him an example of a place that has HOV lanes which are allowed to be used by single occupant toll-paying drivers.


    Road biking on an MTB is one of the best ways I can think of to lose weight or get/stay in shape! My first bike was an MTB and I didn't know much about actual MTB riding, so I was road riding. Lost about 30 lbs (which has all come back since then, and more). Then I got in to MTB and now I think road riding is boring as . :\
    I have lost 33 so far (since march) and am essentially road riding (though on a paved trail). I don't mind the idea of taking it off road, but I still feel like my strength and endurance should be up a little further before I try to do anything like that.

  8. #133
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I would love a road bike, but my MTB was free and it's all I have. Also, I assume it is accelerating my endurance/getting in shape, since it is 40 lbs and has 2 inch wide tires with knobs. LOL

    Once I get on a road bike I should be able to fly.
    You're definitely working harder so I have no doubt that it gets you into shape faster. I just like to go fast. I don't think I could ever hit the speeds I hit on my bike on a MTB.

    I do want a MTB too, but I don't have space for it.

  9. #134
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Or you just raise the price.
    That won't do anything to push free HOV'ers off the lane (which would be the presumed problem).

  10. #135
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    You're definitely working harder so I have no doubt that it gets you into shape faster. I just like to go fast. I don't think I could ever hit the speeds I hit on my bike on a MTB.

    I do want a MTB too, but I don't have space for it.
    I've maxed out at 46 mph on a road bike, only 24 mph on a MTB on the same hill.

  11. #136
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    You're definitely working harder so I have no doubt that it gets you into shape faster. I just like to go fast. I don't think I could ever hit the speeds I hit on my bike on a MTB.

    I do want a MTB too, but I don't have space for it.
    Yeah I love to go fast, and lately I haven't been able to go past 14 mph (average over my whole ride), but I have been concentrating on increasing distance, rather than to increase my speed. I actually just got finished doing 100 miles over 4 days yesterday. Let's just say I am glad I gave myself the day off today.

    That won't do anything to push free HOV'ers off the lane (which would be the presumed problem).
    Once again, price isn't always financial. Raise occupancy from 2 to 3

  12. #137
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    Once again, price isn't always financial. Raise occupancy from 2 to 3
    That's a good solution. Comes with a political show, but, it would help.

  13. #138
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    That's a good solution. Comes with a political show, but, it would help.
    You are right about that, but I really think that it is much ado about nothing (because I don't think it will be an issue) and that this is the most efficient use of lane space.

    Also, I don't want ever expanding lanes, the very first time I voted was for a light rail system right after I turned 18 (I lived in berlin for a year and it was wonderful). I think it has to be done right and possibly slowly to combat slow adoption rates, but I want it done. Its the only way to stop this.

  14. #139
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    You are right about that, but I really think that it is much ado about nothing and that this is the most efficient use of lane space.

    Also, I don't want ever expanding lanes, the very first time I voted was for a light rail system right after I turned 18 (I lived in berlin for a year and it was wonderful). I think it has to be done right and possibly slowly to combat slow adoption rates, but I want it done. Its the only way to stop this.
    Sadly, I think light rail makes about 3492043423x more sense than San Antonio is able to fathom.

  15. #140
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    Sadly, I think light rail makes about 3492043423x more sense than San Antonio is able to fathom.
    It does seem to be beyond the comprehension of many.

    Shoot, I went to germany 6 months after I got my license, thought I was going to miss my truck soooooo much.

    I didn't care.

    I did, however, miss my bike/the train/etc when I came back even though I had my truck.

    If you can make a 16/17 year old be willing to give up his vehicle, you are doing something right.

  16. #141
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    What part of 281 is getting tolls? I normally drive that to-from the valley and traffic never been a problem, IIRC.

  17. #142
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    The rail system in Berlin blew me away. Probably the best I've experienced outside of New York (which wins simply by account of the sheer scope of the system, number of stations, etc.).

  18. #143
    Since 1979 Das Texan's Avatar
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    The only problem with the San Diego system (never been on it), is that it would take 1000000000000000x more coordination to make it all happen correctly than this city has ever done.

  19. #144
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I've maxed out at 46 mph on a road bike, only 24 mph on a MTB on the same hill.
    Downhill the extra mass will give you higher speeds but good luck on flats.

  20. #145
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Sadly, I think light rail makes about 3492043423x more sense than San Antonio is able to fathom.
    Yep.

  21. #146
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    What part of 281 is getting tolls? I normally drive that to-from the valley and traffic never been a problem, IIRC.
    Thats south of SA. 281 just north of town would be where this would take place. Has been a traffic show as long as I've been driving (98)

  22. #147
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'll try to never live in a place without good public transit in the future. Its just awesome to have everything in a centralized layout with options that don't involve a ing car.

  23. #148
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    I'll try to never live in a place without good public transit in the future. Its just awesome to have everything in a centralized layout with options that don't involve a ing car.
    Would allow for so much more disposable income and this coming from someone who hasn't ever bought a car for more than 12k.

  24. #149
    I cannot grok its fullnes leemajors's Avatar
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    You are right about that, but I really think that it is much ado about nothing (because I don't think it will be an issue) and that this is the most efficient use of lane space.

    Also, I don't want ever expanding lanes, the very first time I voted was for a light rail system right after I turned 18 (I lived in berlin for a year and it was wonderful). I think it has to be done right and possibly slowly to combat slow adoption rates, but I want it done. Its the only way to stop this.
    dun dun dunnnn

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...car_conspiracy

  25. #150
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Would allow for so much more disposable income and this coming from someone who hasn't ever bought a car for more than 12k.
    Not only that but what about time? How many people spend 2 hours in their car daily just go to a place in the same city?

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