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  1. #1
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Actual excerpt from the Texas GOP Platform:

    Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
    Interesting... tactic?

    Thoughts from the forum Red Teamers?

    http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs...ical-thinking/

  2. #2
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    TX Repugs in the VRWC/"Christian" ranks of s inducing The Age of Benightedness.

  3. #3
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    in the same TX thread, another asshole

    Meet Larry Smith, Texas' Wannabe Anti-Shariah Sheriff

    Larry Smith, a former Drug Enforcement Administration agent running for sheriff in Smith County, Texas, has a unique plank in his platform: He has pledged to protect this deep-red border county from the creeping menace of Islamic religious law, or Shariah.

    Outside of science fiction, this Texas county—which voted for John McCain at a 70 percent clip—doesn't seem the most likely place for an Islamist takeover. After all, creeping Shariah is mostly a myth. The issue might come up in civil cases if both parties to a contract have accepted an agreement based on religious law, but the Cons ution bars religious law from superseding civil law.

    Despite his out-there Shariah stance, Smith has earned the endorsement of the county's local paper. And local Democrats aren't even fielding a candidate in the sheriff's race. That means next Tuesday's Republican primary—which includes four candidates for the county's top law enforcement post—will likely decide whether Smith County's next sheriff devotes time to worrying about a Shariah takeover.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ff-larry-smith

  4. #4
    hasta la victoria, siempre cheguevara's Avatar
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    Every political power in history has opposed critical thinking

  5. #5
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Every political power in history has opposed critical thinking
    Most don't take a point of writing it down and broadcasting it though.

  6. #6
    hasta la victoria, siempre cheguevara's Avatar
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    Most don't take a point of writing it down and broadcasting it though.
    maybe they're following their own advice?

  7. #7
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    Thoughts from the forum Red Teamers?
    I think if the blue team thinks this is appropriate education for kids in middle school then this country is ed.

    http://hots.org/tour/index.html

    Take the tour.

  8. #8
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I think if the blue team thinks this is appropriate education for kids in middle school then this country is ed.

    http://hots.org/tour/index.html

    Take the tour.
    Which parts did you find inappropriate for the target demographic?

  9. #9
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I think if the blue team thinks this is appropriate education for kids in middle school then this country is ed.

    http://hots.org/tour/index.html

    Take the tour.
    And when is it appropriate to teach critical thinking skills?

  10. #10
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    Your question assumes that having 8th graders simplistic video games and crossword puzzles equals critical thinking skills, I don't agree.

    I would say that judging from your post we need to focus more on reading comprehension skills. I would say that except I know you're smart enough to understand what the gop statement really opposes and you are just just spinning for the sake of your team.

    But to play along, why do you oppose knowledge based education?

  11. #11
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    The dumbing down of America began long ago, this isn't anything new

    Think about it, people who can't think critically tend to not question things. You know, things that the government does. They become easily manipulated.

  12. #12
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Actual excerpt from the Texas GOP Platform:



    Interesting... tactic?

    Thoughts from the forum Red Teamers?

    http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs...ical-thinking/
    There are reasoned arguments against outcome based initiatives. But, most laymen seem to equate OB to No Child Left Behind, which is a very crude comparison. I can see where that would taint the impression one might have of an outcome based program tho.

    The blog posted is little more than a boutons-esque slobbering rant.

  13. #13
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Critical thinking is against Americans' values? Ok

    but I agree that they are saying that in a more figurative yet specific way, about these supposed "critical thinking" skill initiatives. But presentation is everything ...

  14. #14
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    Scott let me tell you a quick story and see if you think this kids parents opposed critical thinking skills.

    When I owned a small retail store I hired a 15 year old kid. He was very smart and wanted to be a mechanical engineer. He took a critical thinking course at Smithson Valley High and in class they played monopoly and other board games. When his parents found out they pulled him out of Smithson Valley High and sent him to another school. After he graduated his parents sent him to UTA to get his engineering degree on their dime.

    Now did his parents oppose critical thinking skills or do you think it was something else they opposed?

  15. #15
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    The willingness to believe that parents' beliefs are inherently correct and should not be challenged seems to be both: (1) an attempt to ensure, in many cases, that deeply flawed but earnestly held beliefs will perpetuate themselves; and (2) completely counter to a child's seemingly inherent need or desire to question a parent's judgments.

    I also wonder: if the parent's authority lies (in part) in instilling certain fixed beliefs and if teachers should not teach with a purpose to challenge fixed beliefs instilled through the proper exercise of parental authority, if the parents of children in a particular classroom have been instilled with conflicting fixed beliefs, then what? Is the next step insisting that all parents should instill the same fixed beliefs? or are some fixed beliefs more worthy of protection than others?

  16. #16
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    That willingness seems to be hardwired into the psyche of a child for the most part. So is the need to question a parent's judgement.

    The kicker here is that these two behaviors manifest themselves at different times. This is what I like about OCBE in light of the emerging trends that show a college degree uber alles is not all it could be, it (OCBE) has the potential for flexibility that input based systems just can't accomodate.

  17. #17
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Actual excerpt from the Texas GOP Platform:



    Interesting... tactic?

    Thoughts from the forum Red Teamers?

    http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs...ical-thinking/
    I would assume that "HOTS," like any other good sounding program, is a failure.

    HOTS is a program. Do you really think anyone would be against instilling critical thinking? I'll bet it's another mandated program that costs millions or billions, and doesn't produce results.

  18. #18
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    My caveat to my prior post: When in the realm of special needs students, the input based system is has the ability to be individualized, which is much more difficult in the OCBE system as I understand it.

  19. #19
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, my point wasn't to champion current theories of education. I tend to think most public education is woefully inadequate and that we get further and further away from the ideal as we develop one-size-fits-all approaches to educating children. My child is still several years away from entering the educational system in any meaningful way, but when I talk with friends who have school aged children, I'm frequently appalled to hear stories about things that happen in public school classrooms these days.

    I just thought the "parent as absolute bastion of absolute truth" notion was silly.

  20. #20
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I just thought the "parent as absolute bastion of absolute truth" notion was silly.
    It is at some levels. It's also a defense mechanism at others.

  21. #21
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Your question assumes that having 8th graders simplistic video games and crossword puzzles equals critical thinking skills, I don't agree.

    I would say that judging from your post we need to focus more on reading comprehension skills. I would say that except I know you're smart enough to understand what the gop statement really opposes and you are just just spinning for the sake of your team.

    But to play along, why do you oppose knowledge based education?
    Your answer makes a lot of assumptions about what you don't agree to. You took the simplest part of what the statement is about and applied it to the highest level of the demographic. You mentioned something about spinning?

    Reading comprehension? Which team is my team?

    Destructing the sentence, it says this:

    We oppose the teaching of... critical thinking skills... that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE)... which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

    Your assumption that I oppose Knowledge-based Education seems to point that you could use some more critical thinking skills. Are OBE and KBE mutually exclusive? Have I suggested that KBE has no place in a classroom, or that I am opposed to it?

  22. #22
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Scott let me tell you a quick story and see if you think this kids parents opposed critical thinking skills.

    When I owned a small retail store I hired a 15 year old kid. He was very smart and wanted to be a mechanical engineer. He took a critical thinking course at Smithson Valley High and in class they played monopoly and other board games. When his parents found out they pulled him out of Smithson Valley High and sent him to another school. After he graduated his parents sent him to UTA to get his engineering degree on their dime.

    Now did his parents oppose critical thinking skills or do you think it was something else they opposed?
    This is a fun story, but doesn't really address the point being discussed here, which FWD has been able to narrow in on: the idea that our students shouldn't have their fixed beliefs challenged, and doing so undermines parental authority.

    Mind you, I'm not defending any system that is being used today - because (as I'll touch on later) in my experience those systems aren't working.

    As an actual professional educator, I'm continually appalled at the lack of critical thinking skills my students have as college sop res. Getting back to your example, had these students had certain games introduced to them as a part of curriculum at an early stage, they would be better thinkers. For example, some systems are introducing chess as a part of the curriculum around 3rd grade. That doesn't mean the students sit around and play chess all day, it's merely one component of the educational system. There are a lot of "games" (we aren't talking about Call of Duty or Shoots N' Ladders here) that foster and teach critical thinking, and they should be included in the curriculum IMO.

  23. #23
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    That willingness seems to be hardwired into the psyche of a child for the most part. So is the need to question a parent's judgement.

    The kicker here is that these two behaviors manifest themselves at different times. This is what I like about OCBE in light of the emerging trends that show a college degree uber alles is not all it could be, it (OCBE) has the potential for flexibility that input based systems just can't accomodate.
    Flexibility and recognition that we don't live in a binary, one-size-fits-all world is an amazing thing, isn't it?

  24. #24
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I would assume that "HOTS," like any other good sounding program, is a failure.

    HOTS is a program. Do you really think anyone would be against instilling critical thinking? I'll bet it's another mandated program that costs millions or billions, and doesn't produce results.
    You'd lose that bet, but good try.

  25. #25
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Flexibility and recognition that we don't live in a binary, one-size-fits-all world is an amazing thing, isn't it?
    YOU LIE!!

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