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Not trying to imagine a scenario with cap space, that's why I assumed the use of the MLE. Talking about the de facto hard cap of 4M above the tax threshold that comes into play when you use the full MLE.
Depending on what the contract is, it should cause Tim to sign at a certain time, correct? I don't think it will end up mattering because it is so unlikely he takes a contract low enough to make a difference in cap space.
Not trying to imagine a scenario with cap space, that's why I assumed the use of the MLE. Talking about the de facto hard cap of 4M above the tax threshold that comes into play when you use the full MLE.
Theory? Garnett averaged three more minutes in the playoffs than Duncan.
^ This.
Not disagreeing, but we know that per minute stats with Tim could be a little deceiving. There is a reason Pop feels he has to heavily monitor Tims minutes and KG can play more. You might get diminishing returns from Tim.
But that's not the point. Tim's play warrants a big pay day.
And still produced more ...so I still fail to see your point.
timvp's had at least a half dozen /thread caliber posts in the past few pages.
Give it up, you fools. Duncan was/is still better and means more to this franchise than Garnett does to the Celtics. I agree that he'll probably sign for 2/$25, but if by the off chance he wants something like $14-15 a year, so be it.
What is the damn shame of saying an old KG is better then an old TD? Everybody knows for their careers Tim is the much better of the 2 & nobody is denying this, yet your bias is clouding y'alls judgment.
No matter what the contract is, I'm just glad to know that 2011-2012 wasn't the last time we will get to see the greatest Spur ever suit up. I was dreading the day that time came (as we all assumed that contract would be his last), and I know it's still looming on the horizon in a year or two, but even an extra couple seasons will be a privelege, TOSB status or not.
KG, on his best day, has never been and WILL never be "better" than Duncan. What I will give you is that his health has been better in the last year or two, allowing him to play more minutes. Even at that, Duncan's per minutes stats are better.
If the spurs are going to offer Duncan $12M per year they must be working on a big trade or something.
The spurs wont have any cap space to get a good player so that only leaves them with one alternative and that is to trade. Right? Wrong?
Spurs won't have any cap space whether Duncan signs for 6M or 12M. They'll have the same possible use of the MLE, BAE and vet minimum to sign free agents in either case.
Spurs were only going to have meaningful cap space if Duncan retired or signed a contract close to the minimum.
We are over the cap next year anyway, but not the next. Haven't they reached the trust point of giving him another 20+ mill contract with the understanding that he gets 5 mill or so the next year? Ideally, we would pay him heavily next year and lightly the following year. What this tells me is that the spurs aren't sure he wants to play multiple years and would like the temptation of big money in year two over such a gentlemens agreement that Tim could burn the team on after next year.
We will have the cap space when Manu's and Jackson's contracts come off of the books after next season is over.
Not to mention that Duncan has had better support, in the regular season at least, while Garnett is the only consistent big on the Celtics roster.
I always think of Scottie Pippen when I think of underpaid players. He was the second best guy on several championship teams.
I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement Bruno. Absolutely ridiculous.
KG is more mobile because his knee is in better shape, does KG have to walk around wearing a knee brace when he is not on the court? Tim played great in the first two rounds of the playoffs, but when the WCF switched to a game every other day that may have taken a toll on his knee. Despite that he was still possibly close to being the best big man in the playoffs and you want him to take less money than KG?
If Tim wants to, that is great, but that is only after you make your initial offer HIGHER or at least equal to what KG got. Then give Tim some other options if him taking less creates some flexibility.
Last edited by Ice009; 06-30-2012 at 08:27 PM.
I think they should have some sort of under the table deal. Instead of giving something like 2 years 22 million they should give him a 1 year 15 million deal and next offseason give him 1 year 7 million or something like that. We can afford to frontload the deal since we aren't players in free agency this year but need the space next offseason
Um, no. Under-the-table deals are insanely stupid, especially considering what happened to the Wolves.
So as of the beginning of the 2012 Free Agency period (in 2 hours), the Spurs have $49,084,191 in committed salary for the 2012-2013 season, with $26,542,241 in cap-holds for their free agents.
The biggest cap-hold is obviously Duncan at $22,222,850, and then James Anderson at $1,756,224. Not sure if they have renounced Anderson, but I know they didn't pick up his option so I would assume that his cap-hold is gone at midnight (though maybe someone can correct me on that).
We know that both Green and Mills have had qualifying offers tendered, so that is another 2,695,391 + whatever Mills was offered (think it was a bit over $1 million). So basically your looking at Spurs committed to around $53 million at the start of the FA period.
That would be around $5-7 million under the cap (depending on where the salary cap lands). However since Duncan and the Spurs didn't reach an agreement prior to the period beginning so the cap-hold on his salary remains until he is signed by the Spurs or another team. This means the Spurs don't have anything to offer any FA other than the MLE and the BAE, unless they want the vet. minimum. So basically unless he takes the vet minimum himself, Duncan doesn't really help the team by taking less money (at least this season).
What this all means is basically the Spurs FO is signalling that they aren't looking to FAs (beyond their own Europe crop) to improve the roster this summer.
He deserves anything and everything the front office give him. Tim Duncan is the San Antonio Spurs. Money and contract numbers are not for us to worry about, it can be very complex. That's on RC and Peter Holt to do what's best for TD and the team.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Spurs' fluid plan w/Spur For Life Tim Duncan: I'm told they'll pound out deal specifics & then finalize when timing meshes best w/other biz
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