, Batman's characterization (like any other comic book character) is dependent on the writer more than anything.
Clooney turned 36 the year Batman & Robin came out.Joel's movies are cringe worthy(George clonney as a 50 year old batman?Chris ODonnell as Robin)
And, incidentally, Clooney would make a ing awesome 50-year-old Batman. If they were to ever make a Batman film using Frank Miller's work as the source material and go with his older, grizzled, cynical, completely over it Batman, Clooney would be the perfect choice.
But, yeah, Shumacher Batman is painful bad.
Okay, differences between Nolan's batman vs comic batman:
1) Batman is suppose to be traumatized/haunted by the death of his parents. So much so that he has become obsessed with fighting crime. He's dark and twisted in his own right, hence the name "the dark knight". He could never "quit" the way Nolan's batman wants to quit. The idea that batman could go and have a normal life someday is completely against the character. Yet Nolan's batman spends half the movie wishing he could get with Maggie Gylehall and let Dent keep the city safe which is ing stupid.
2) Batman is suppose to be cynical. He doesnt even trust Superman (keeps his own supply of kryptonite...just in case). He has his own dark side and thus believes everyone has a dark side. But we're suppose to believe he's gonna let a politician "be the new hero"?!!
3) Batman is suppose to be a cunning/clever master sleuth. Part of not having super powers means having to outsmart his opponents who are usually evil geniuses in their own right. Likewise, he usually has to spend time trying to determine the true motives of his adversaries by gathering clues from various crimes etc. The Joker is his arch-nemesis because he has no motives. He simply loves chaos. This may have touched on briefly in "TDK", except its Michael Caine who realizes that Joker doesnt want anything except anarchy, not Batman. He has to be TOLD by his "wiser, older butler" which turns batman into a "dumb Tony Stark".
Likewise, Batman is outsmarted by the Joker in the entire film. He lets himself get captured, escapes from jail, kills batman's girlfriend, turns Dent into a bad guy etc. If "Deebo" from Friday blows up the other Ferry full of civilians (which would have happened in real life), the Joker would have been successful at pretty much everything because hes so much more ing clever than "Batman".
Dont even get me started on that ridiculous raspy voice. Did someone tell Nolan that Batman would make awesome parody material if you gave him a comically stupid voice? Instead of sticking to known character traits, lets give him a stupid voice! Let make him as un-cool as we possibly can!
So yeah, Im not a fan of Nolan and Im bewildered by "Nolanites".
There STILL has yet to be a definitive Batman the way Christopher Reeve was the definitive Superman. They could have cast someone complete different for "The dark knight rises" and it wouldnt matter because theres NOTHING memorable from Christian Bale's portrayal of Wayne/Batman.
Imagine recasting Iron Man with someone besides Robert Downey Junior. You cant because his persona and quirks helped define the character.
Nolans films focus more on plot than characters.
Last edited by da_suns_fan; 07-15-2012 at 02:25 PM.
I think Bale oversells the raspy voice a tad, but the use of two different voices for Bruce Wayne and Batman goes back to Kevin Conroy's voicing of the character in B:TAS. For someone interested in character development, it seems odd you would single that out as a negative. Silly or not, it makes perfect sense that a well-known public figure would want to disguise their recognizable voice when adopting a new persona. You don't have to like it, but it's more obviously a character tick than a Nolan tick.
Superman and Clark Kent had different speech patterns/tones in their voice without being clownish.
Kevin Conroy's "dual voices" in the animated series was superb. Took his voice down a notch when he was batman.
Bale's raspy voice is so ing over-the-top its distracting to what he's actually saying. Whats really sad is all the cartoon parodies are spot on with the stupid voice.
ha, this guy is awesome
This saga is supposed to END. There is closure. It was never this Batman's intention to fight crime forever because this is not the comics Batman. You seem to think that there is only one way to portray the character, and that simply isn't true.
Batman trusted Dent during The Long Halloween. Batman has trusted several regular people over the years. Again, this goes back to your desire for Batman to fight crime forever. Nolan's Batman new from the beginning that that was never going to happen, so he looked for somebody the people could get behind. He looked for somebody who stood for what he stood for. He thought he found it in Dent, but he was wrong.2) Batman is suppose to be cynical. He doesnt even trust Superman (keeps his own supply of kryptonite...just in case). He has his own dark side and thus believes everyone has a dark side. But we're suppose to believe he's gonna let a politician "be the new hero"?!!
1.). Movie Tony Stark never even faced anybody like the Joker from a motive standpoint, so bringing him up is asinine.3) Batman is suppose to be a cunning/clever master sleuth. Part of not having super powers means having to outsmart his opponents who are usually evil geniuses in their own right. Likewise, he usually has to spend time trying to determine the true motives of his adversaries by gathering clues from various crimes etc. The Joker is his arch-nemesis because he has no motives. He simply loves chaos. This may have touched on briefly in "TDK", except its Michael Caine who realizes that Joker doesnt want anything except anarchy, not Batman. He has to be TOLD by his "wiser, older butler" which turns batman into a "dumb Tony Stark".
2.). Movie Batman was fighting crime for six months before the Joker came. He had no experience with somebody like him, and it shows when he assumes the Joker was only out for money. Why are you expecting Batman to magically know how to deal with the Joker when all he faced up until that point were thugs and gangsters?
See my above response. Batman was in a learning phase. He did, however, defeat the Joker by doing something Batman-esque. He used the sonar machine, and spied on everybody in Gotham.Likewise, Batman is outsmarted by the Joker in the entire film. He lets himself get captured, escapes from jail, kills batman's girlfriend, turns Dent into a bad guy etc. If "Deebo" from Friday blows up the other Ferry full of civilians (which would have happened in real life), the Joker would have been successful at pretty much everything because hes so much more ing clever than "Batman".
I agree that the voice is bad.Dont even get me started on that ridiculous raspy voice. Did someone tell Nolan that Batman would make awesome parody material if you gave him a comically stupid voice? Instead of sticking to known character traits, lets give him a stupid voice! Let make him as un-cool as we possibly can!
Your complaints are the same "not my Batman" bull that's be said a million times before. You complain about Nolan's Batman having no personality, but you can't even describe Batman's personality.So yeah, Im not a fan of Nolan and Im bewildered by "Nolanites".
There STILL has yet to be a definitive Batman the way Christopher Reeve was the definitive Superman. They could have cast someone complete different for "The dark knight rises" and it wouldnt matter because theres NOTHING memorable from Christian Bale's portrayal of Wayne/Batman.
Imagine recasting Iron Man with someone besides Robert Downey Junior. You cant because his persona and quirks helped define the character.
Nolans films focus more on plot than characters.
Nolan's Batman is different to the comic book Batman? How awful! How dare Nolan do a fresh take on an old story.
I just did. You, however, ignored them because youre a Nolan apologist.
Obsessive. Haunted. Clever. Intelligent. Driven.
Theres five characteristics of Batman that Bale/Nolan dont convey. In fact, i cant think of any characteristic of the Bale/Nolan batman other than "raspy voice".
I have NO PROBLEM with a fresh take on the story.
I have a problem with the character of Batman being nothing more than a rich guy in a costume.
Because Batman is suppose to be obsessive and intelligent. After long, careful examination, Batman should realize that the Joker just loves causing anarchy and he should be explaining it to Alfred, not the other way around.
The films gets the scene backwards and s up the character.
First Bruce-Alfred scene in The Dark Knight.
Scene after Rachel died with Alfred in The Dark Knight. Scenes of Bruce before he became Batman in Batman Begins.Haunted.Sonar part of The Dark Knight, and finding the fingerprint on the bullet (as silly as that is) in the same movie.Clever. Intelligent.
Fighting crime for six straight months does not show how driven he is? Taking the fall for Dent's crimes because he wants Gotham to have a hero, does not show dedication?Driven.
Completely false.Theres five characteristics of Batman that Bale/Nolan dont convey. In fact, i cant think of any characteristic of the Bale/Nolan batman other than "raspy voice".
Because Batman is suppose to be obsessive and intelligent. After long, careful examination, Batman should realize that the Joker just loves causing anarchy and he should be explaining it to Alfred, not the other way around.
The films gets the scene backwards and s up the character.What a dumb complaint. Heaven forbid a rookie Batman doesn't know how to handle every situation that is thrown at him on a moment's notice. Sorry that Nolan's Batman isn't a Mary Sue who doesn't need to learn anything.
If Batman already knew everything, that would be one boring-ass (and short) movie, tbh....
Because Batman is suppose to be obsessive and intelligent. After long, careful examination, Batman should realize that the Joker just loves causing anarchy and he should be explaining it to Alfred, not the other way around.
The films gets the scene backwards and s up the character.
I didnt think Keaton was a great Batman, but he was decent. He at least established a character.
Intelligent: Keaton's batman cracked the Joker's "Death by makeup" code. He also uncovers that Max Shrek (Christopher Walken) was lying about the need for more energy for Gotham.
Obsessive: He struggles to have a relationship with Kim Basinger because he cant stop being who he is. In the second flim, he obsessed over the Penguin while the penguin pretended to be a poor orphan trying to find his parents. Alfred calls him out on it and Batman dismisses his criticism.
Frightening: In the opening scene of Batman, one thug is dangled over a roof-top and then allowed to let go. Batman scares the out of him and then tells him to "Tell all your friends about me". He likes to haunt his enemies they way they haunt him. This is WHY he wears the gothic costume.
Clever: Batman uses the Penguins audio against him in the Penguins big speech: I played this city like a harp from !!
Now...how did Bale/Nolan convey those same characteristics?
Last edited by da_suns_fan; 07-15-2012 at 04:00 PM.
Exactly. Where would the tension be if Bruce knew how to deal with everything by himself, especially after only being around for a few months?
Everybody just admit that you'll like it and are going to watch it. The haters talk about this movie so much that they should stop pretending that they hate it. I already ragged on my cousin(who is one of the biggest nolan haters and Tim Burton version lover) for buying advance tickets. His excuse: Cause my chick is a Bale/Hardy fan
Batman came up with the sonar tool? Using the sonar tool that Morgan Freeman showed him makes him no more intelligent than using the "tumbler".
He isnt suppose to know everything, he's suppose to obsess and discover. Not just "ask alfred" and have everything explained to him.
Again, they made him dumb.
a waste of weed imo. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the movie or the dro, then again I can't be in public high without anxietyI'm gonna blaze some dro before I go
Already posted examples of Nolan's Batman portraying those characteristics. For the fear part, Nolan's Batman does the stalking in the shadows and the high-al ude interrogation. One of the great things about The Dark Knight is the criminals realizing that Batman does have a code, and that he can't be more intimidating than the Joker, who does whatever he wants.
Now the butthurt is obvious
Batman modified the sonar and spied on everybody in Gotham. Even Fox was impressed.
And Alfred doesn't tell him how to do everything. Batman still had to LEARN, which probably upsets you because you want him to be boringly perfect.
Do you have any legitimate complaints besides the bat voice?
Clooney just looked too old and not athletic enough to play Batman in 97. Maybe if he got into the weight room with Hardy he could pull off Frank Miller's version. If they ever need a Robin. The kid from the new Spiderman could pull off Robin better than Chris.
You might be right on that point, I didnt remember that part.
You can dismiss my complaints all you want, but so far you have:
1) Failed to give me any character trait of Nolans batman. In fact, you asked me to give what batman is SUPPOSE to be since you had no idea from watching the first two films.
2) Dismissed every "accepted character trait" of Batman. He's not allowed to be batman because hes "a rookie batman". I reject that narrative. I think its just bad writing.
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