OJ had his chance against LAC. It resulted in blowing a 20 point lead in the fourth quarter because he couldn't shoot or defend and losing a game 7 on the road.
You can't say the defense throughout the regular season (which played a large role in getting the best record in the West) and his defense against CP3 (which helped sweep two teams and give the Spurs their best shot at getting to the finals) was not worth anything. That is just a ridiculous argument to prop up the no defense playing, no shooting Mayo.
I am lumping you in with him because you don't know what you are talking about. All you do is base your opinions off of name recognition. I know you don't watch a ton of basketball nor do you look at stats to help shape your position. I said OJ has the higher ceiling and has more natural ability - I also already explained why I would take DG in spite of that. I also said that the gap isn't far either way at least not to the point where you start stupid threads like this or "Dwill v Mills" to scoff, but you and M>S keep failing to grasp that.
The posters that are calling me on my " " are the same ones saying "throw away half of OJ's career when evaluating" and "Dwill v Mills" and "He's a scrub! I don't care what the stats or market says!" so I don't really care
I also love how you ignore how OJ s the bed in the playoffs worse than Green and how you just randomly say even though OJ is a horrific defender and Green is a solid one how it just doesn't matter somehow.
Blah Blah Blah Blah...little substance, as usual--but you slap 2 coats of sarcasm and arrogance over every fresh turd you produce here.
Let's call a spade a spade then. If I "supposedly" go off nothing more than name recognition, then you suckle on Bruno, MB, FWD, and occasionally timvp's s for your takes and basketball knowledge, as well as a couple of the other OG's here. You have no idea how stupid you look in this thread, and how I've already used your words against you.
Yup, pretty common knowledge.I said OJ has the higher ceiling and has more natural ability
Not with any success. You still haven't illustrated why the best coach in the game couldn't use a more talented, higher-ceiling player over your current SG. You haven't, because you can't without contradicting yourself. If Pop can turn some eastern euro league-playing afterthought into a decent starter, what do you think he's capable of with a "more talented" one? Don't dodge the question.I also already explained why I would take DG in spite of that
Get over your mancrush for DG already. Jerking off to one abridged season of surprising play is definitely something true basketball enthusiasts do, amirite?
Also, please find where I've denied or disregarded Mayo's underwhelming playoffs to date. Yup, he hasn't played up to his potential yet--that's a pretty obvious observation there, champ. However, in 2011 while OJ was helping to knock off a #1 seed, DG was stashed away in some Balkan hole, wondering if he'd ever play in the NBA again--in the WCF we saw why.
This thread was over and your point lost as soon as you admitted OJ was "more talented, had more natural ability, and had a higher ceiling."
More talented, more natural ability, higher ceiling player (your words, not mine) + best coach in the NBA<<<<Pop + DG (using DPG logic).
Well done, dip .
Last edited by DeadlyDynasty; 07-17-2012 at 07:52 PM.
He told on himself whenever he didn't want to take the bet. All that other bs aside, when it came time to put his money where his mouth is even DPG himself knows who the better player is. That's good enough for me and I'd advise you leave him alone too because he won't ever quit he'll just keep doing this over and over in circles.
This is aside from all the thats going in itt, but I hate how some posters do this on the reg. It needs to stop.
Extreme over-exaggeration of your opponents stance does not make your stance look any better people.
Okay carry on.
Yup^
Little substance. I guess posting stats and backing my position is little substance while saying things like "he's a scrub!" while ignoring and not refuting any point is full of substance.
Blah Blah Blah Blah...little substance, as usual--but you slap 2 coats of sarcasm and arrogance over every fresh turd you produce here.
It's not being worked up - it is talking about the topic and having to overcome random throw away scoffing and greatly exaggerated positions.
I think DG is a much better defender than OJ. You say that has no bearing and I disagree both from a regular season and playoff perspective.
Pretty sure saying "he's a scrub" and " a playoff choker" in the face of me showing you OJ has been worse makes you look stupid, not me. No matter how many silly over exaggerated threads yall start.Let's call a spade a spade then. If I "supposedly" go off nothing more than name recognition, then you suckle on Bruno, MB, FWD, and occasionally timvp's s for your takes and basketball knowledge, as well as a couple of the other OG's here. You have no idea how stupid you look in this thread, and how I've already used your words against you.
I suckle on them
You still don't get it. It's ok. You have used nothing substantial, have not refuted any of the points I have made even though I answer your questions just because you have your mind made up. That's fine, but again, it's not a silly argument to the degree you are making it out to be.Yup, pretty common knowledge.
Not with any success. You still haven't illustrated why the best coach in the game couldn't use a more talented, higher-ceiling player over your current SG. You haven't, because you can't without contradicting yourself. If Pop can turn some eastern euro league-playing afterthought into a decent starter, what do you think he's capable of with a "more talented" one? Don't dodge the question.
Get over your mancrush for DG already. Jerking off to one abridged season of surprising play is definitely something true basketball enthusiasts do, amirite?
Also, please find where I've denied or disregarded Mayo's underwhelming playoffs to date. Yup, he hasn't played up to his potential yet--that's a pretty obvious observation there, champ. However, in 2011 while OJ was helping to knock off a #1 seed, DG was stashed away in some Balkan hole, wondering if he'd ever play in the NBA again--in the WCF we saw why.
This thread was over and your point lost as soon as you admitted OJ was "more talented, had more natural ability, and had a higher ceiling."
More talented, more natural ability, higher ceiling player (your words, not mine) + best coach in the NBA<<<<Pop + DG (using DPG logic).
Well done, dip .
The fact you don't understand that "having a higher ceiling" doesn't equate to "automatically he gets the nod" shows you miss the point that others have also tried to tell you.
^Little substance. I guess posting stats and backing my position is little substance while saying things like "he's a scrub!" while ignoring and not refuting any point is full of substance.
It's not being worked up - it is talking about the topic and having to overcome random throw away scoffing and greatly exaggerated positions.
I think DG is a much better defender than OJ. You say that has no bearing and I disagree both from a regular season and playoff perspective.
Pretty sure saying "he's a scrub" and " a playoff choker" in the face of me showing you OJ has been worse makes you look stupid, not me. No matter how many silly over exaggerated threads yall start.
I suckle on them
You still don't get it. It's ok. You have used nothing substantial, have not refuted any of the points I have made even though I answer your questions just because you have your mind made up. That's fine, but again, it's not a silly argument to the degree you are making it out to be.
The fact you don't understand that "having a higher ceiling" doesn't equate to "automatically he gets the nod" shows you miss the point that others have also tried to tell you.
Dodged the question again. Not surprising at all, though.
You and M>S seem to be missing the point though. The point was that it's not nearly as bad as yall made it out to be.
Even in this thread I spoke about Mavs being a solid team potentially, so I was not knocking OJ or the pick up.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201276
Last edited by DPG21920; 07-17-2012 at 09:00 PM.
I am assuming this is the one question you keep referring too (even though I have already answered I think and you answer to nothing
It's not a contradiction - Pop is a good coach, but he is far from some magical wizard. OJ would struggle IMO because you can't change the fact OJ sucks at defense and Danny doesn't. To illustrate this point, I will bring up something that I argued against for the same reasoning (and it wasn't popular at the time, but turned out correct): Richard Jefferson. RJ had a ton of talent - much more than Danny Green and even way better than OJ has ever been. But Pop, even with that talent could not make it work because RJ just didn't have the tools or mindset to make it in this system. I argued that bringing in a better "fit" even if not as naturally gifted as RJ would be better off and I turned out to be correct (along with others too). I was one of the more vocal about RJ re-signing and why it was bad using this exact logic - and RJ has been way better than OJ could dream of to date in his career.
You disregarded it because you threw out Danny's first two playoff series where he played pretty well (just to make your argument look better) and only focused on his one bad one. You never once mentioned OJ"s massive playoff failures and didn't even acknowledge it when I brought it up to you to show how you were just blindly finding ways to knock Danny and prop of OJ for some reason.Also, please find where I've denied or disregarded Mayo's underwhelming playoffs to date. Yup, he hasn't played up to his potential yet--that's a pretty obvious observation there, champ. However, in 2011 while OJ was helping to knock off a #1 seed, DG was stashed away in some Balkan hole, wondering if he'd ever play in the NBA again--in the WCF we saw why.
While OJ was helping to knock of a #1 seed
Vs Spurs:
Game 1: 38% shooting
Game 2: 18% shooting
Game 3: 37% shooting
Game 4: 40% shooting
Game 5: 75% shooting (only 3 of 4 because he got pulled)
Game 6: 33% shooting
They would have been better off without him tbh..
How is a "higher-ceiling, more talented, more natural ability player" under the tutelage of the best current coach and talent developer not a better option than a guy who was previously known for nothing, and was rotting away in Europe? Christ almighty you must've thought RMJ was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ halfway through '09.
I don't recall you asking me any (non-rhetorical) questions, but ask away.
Ok, so you're comparing RJ to OJ to support your argument--a player that has nothing to do with this argument. I'll do the same now, since we're going down that path. I'm also glad you know a player's mindset after 4 years in the league. If that were true, LeBron would still be a medicore defender at best, and a mental midget in the clutch.I am assuming this is the one question you keep referring too (even though I have already answered I think and you answer to nothing
It's not a contradiction - Pop is a good coach, but he is far from some magical wizard. OJ would struggle IMO because you can't change the fact OJ sucks at defense and Danny doesn't. To illustrate this point, I will bring up something that I argued against for the same reasoning (and it wasn't popular at the time, but turned out correct): Richard Jefferson. RJ had a ton of talent - much more than Danny Green and even way better than OJ has ever been. But Pop, even with that talent could not make it work because RJ just didn't have the tools or mindset to make it in this system. I argued that bringing in a better "fit" even if not as naturally gifted as RJ would be better off and I turned out to be correct (along with others too). I was one of the more vocal about RJ re-signing and why it was bad using this exact logic - and RJ has been way better than OJ could dream of to date in his career.
You disregarded it because you threw out Danny's first two playoff series where he played pretty well (just to make your argument look better) and only focused on his one bad one. You never once mentioned OJ"s massive playoff failures and didn't even acknowledge it when I brought it up to you to show how you were just blindly finding ways to knock Danny and prop of OJ for some reason.
While OJ was helping to knock of a #1 seed
Vs Spurs:
Game 1: 38% shooting
Game 2: 18% shooting
Game 3: 37% shooting
Game 4: 40% shooting
Game 5: 75% shooting (only 3 of 4 because he got pulled)
Game 6: 33% shooting
They would have been better off without him tbh..
RJ was who he was by the time SA got him. Mayo is still developing and is only 24-25 years old. Having the best coach and talent developer would work wonders for him. Also being on a team with established leaders where everyone knows their role would also help a young player. Look at Kawhi Leonard--imagine if he had been drafted by the Warriors or some other mess of a team--would he of had the same impact?
DG is a plug-and-play guard. If he was anything more then he would've been used more against OKC.
He's not the best talent developer. Not even the most homer Spur fan would agree with you and you have nothing to back that up substantially. You are making up hypotheticals (Lebron)- I am giving you actual tangible evidence (RJ) that is very related to this topic (fit v talent and Pops ability to make it work).
Not to mention, all the players you are mentioning (Lebron, Kawhi, Green...) all play defense above average to great. OJ is very below average - again, this is proven statistically.
If OJ were anything, he wouldn't be one of the last free agents courted, dropped by the team that saw him the closest and traded Love for him or signed for less guaranteed money than Novak, Jamal Crawford, Lin, Danny Green, Jason Terry, and many others.
He also wouldn't have a worse playoff record or stats than Danny Green.
Just because you use hyperbole (Dwill v Mills! or He's a Scrub! or Pop is the best talent developer in the NBA!) doesn't make what you say true and you have shown nothing IMO to prove there is such a large gap in OJ vs DG in the context of this argument to be up in arms about and calling people stupid.
You have one abridged season of decent play on a deep team and with the best coach to form your argument.
Here...this is easy to solve: they should both be starters this coming year on decent-to-good teams. We'll let the results speak for themselves and count the bodies afterwards.
I tried that but he rejected it, so don't expect too much here. He's already said that even if Mayo massively outperforms Green, he wouldn't be wrong necessarily. He's got all bases covered.
It's not a bet though...OJ will be starting (just like DG). Some will say the Spurs are deeper, but they also play more fast-paced and score a lot more points, so it evens out, imo
Bet or no bet, he rejected the idea already and covered all his bases. Even if Mayo outperforms Green he's said that he's still not wrong.
I agree - I just don't get why you (and not just you) scoff people like they are saying things like "Bonner is as good as Dwight Howard!!!". The comparision, especially when factoring in the system is not that egregious IMO. That was my only argument.
I expect them both to have solid seasons. I think OJ has more natural talent, so if he makes the leap or it clicks, then there is no argument on who is the better player, it will be OJ. I think that they will have similar years (especially if you factor in defense) but I'd rather have Danny on the Spurs because he isn't a sieve on defense.
No. You still don't get it and I can't explain it any better to you.
OJ should score more points - he will get more shots (all the shots JET got, which is more than Danny ever got). We will see if Danny out shooting OJ in every cat pretty much continues and if OJ will just have more points by being an inefficient chucker.
Please link that? If you can do that, I will accept your bet. If you can not show the quote where I explicitly said that, you are gone forever from ST including all your trolls, deal?
Fair points, but here's why I scoffed the notion of "DG>>Mayo": Like I said, he's toiled in NBA obscurity up until this year, and he was able to find a nice niche in a shooter-friendly, fast-paced offense. I'm just weary of flash-in-the-pan players. RMJ and Boobie Gibson have given similar regular season and playoff performances (respectively), then gone on to do nothing.
jmo
Big difference is Danny is actually an above average defender. Those guys (Boobie, RMJ), if their shots don't fall, you can't play them. Danny, while if he's not making shots its' harder to play him, still has value due to his defense. Maybe not enough to overcome a lack of shooting against OKC, but against most teams, yeah.
Are you backing out of the bet? Do you accept. You have made a clear statement and I want to bet on it. Put your money where your mouth is.
This is where that "above average defender" needs to pay off, though. The Spurs would've beaten Utah and LAC w/o DG, don't you agree? His defensive prowess (where he's better than Mayo at) needs to show up when the team needs him most.
You fellas still arguing over Danny Green and OJ Mayo?
Scro - that is luda to say that IMO. So only if you can stop Durant and one of the top 2 teams in the league is it worth anything?
If that is the case, what the has OJ May done besides not have any impact in the playoffs and worse numbers than Green?
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