The Spurs 'bigs' situation

[SpurNation]

It's got to take a trade. Splitter's confidence was mortally wounded against OKC and it seemed to carry over to the Olympics. Don't how strong mentally he may be as a player after being subjected to last year's WCF's but an interesting article begs to ask if he can overcome.
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/buckhar...emons-are-too/

As far as your question of who out of the list of players still available...I would pick a player that would add defensive toughness around the rim. Amundsen? Milicic?

As we know...offense wasn't the issue last year for the Spurs and don't see it as an issue next season. Defensive toughness on the interior was it's weakest suit often needing Spurs perimeter players to cheat inside to provide assistance for it's bigs.

But more so was the lack of athleticism from the interior bigs. And an issue that presents itself competing against the athletic youth of some of the Spurs formidable opponents next season in OKC, Memphis, Miami, Chicago and now LA.

Can't turn back time, can't teach height AND athleticism. Good question posed with no real answer in sight barring a trade for that kind of talent.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

The Howard trade might be the motivation needed for Pop/RC to finally look to add size. The window is already shut, so any likely addition won't put the team back into contention. Still, maybe this Howard debacle is what it takes for Pop/RC to become more serious in changing the big man rotation, i.e, getting rid off Bonner. But more likely, I see the Spurs shooting for another regular season championship with what they have. And that's probably this team's ceiling anyway. So might as well try to enjoy the ride and support Pop as he moves up in the pantheon of all-time wins.

[venitian navigator]

The free agents still available that, imho, are still worth to be considered by the Spurs are Martin, Blatche, Delfino and Childress.

If the FO likes the players I see for all of the above mentioned free agents a legitimate chance to be added to the team.

Martin it's true he wants more than the minimum, but it's also true that be part of a team with a legitimate chance to compete for a championship could be a good push for him to accept a role in the Spurs team.

Blatche and Childress could see the Spurs their best chance to revamp their nba careers after bad seasons...both are still yoing enough to learn aoour system, have very good potential and both, in next three years, are probably not gonna have offers exceeding the money they're already gonna take 'cause of the amnesty.

Delfino, if is not reached by some offer he can't refuse, could well decide to join his olimpic teammate Manu, after a good showing in London, for a good championship race.

Only other chance to improve the team is go in the trade route, having only Neal, Blair and Bonner as tradable pieces... but I frankly don't see a player with a so much more value than them we could gain from another nba team. But if the FO wants and have the chance to add more than one of the above mentioned free agents, a trade, also for (decent) draft choices, will have to be made just for having more roster spots...

[CGD]

Kenyon Martin
Anthony Tolliver
DJ White
Ivan Johnson

I remember we signed Tolliver and the FO was really high on him. I wonder why we soured on him so fast given he's till in the league. He looked to have the makings of that stretch 4 with better defense than Bonner.

[SenorSpur]

I remember we signed Tolliver and the FO was really high on him. I wonder why we soured on him so fast given he's till in the league. He looked to have the makings of that stretch 4 with better defense than Bonner.

I wondered whether or not Tolliver was still available. It would be wise for the Spurs to swap out Bonner for him. Of course, it'll never happen though.

[spurs10]

They are all in London. Perhaps when they return something will get done.

[elemento]

SA obviously has a problem defensively, but putting it in the back of Splitter, who plays only 19 minutes a game or Diaw, who basically played only half a season in SA, is not fair at all.

The problem goes way beyond that.

SA doesn’t have a reliable go-to player to carry SA to a championship. Manu isn’t good enough as a go-to player, plus he is always hurt. Parker isn’t good enough as well.

Manu and Parker are good complementary players, but it has always been all about Timmy. Timmy is no longer a dominant force both ends and good role players like Splitter and Boris won’t change that. Timmy doesn’t attract double-teams anymore and good perimeter players are not afraid to drive at will against San Antonio.

I think it’s time to realize that once Timmy’s game started to decline, SA’s game declined a lot, especially defensively. He made everything possible for SA.

Quite honestly, we simply have to enjoy Timmy’s last years as a Spur. It was a damn good ride. To expect SA to find the savior BIG with min contracts is not very realistic at all.

[Duncan2177]

SA obviously has a problem defensively, but putting it in the back of Splitter, who plays only 19 minutes a game or Diaw, who basically played only half a season in SA, is not fair at all.

The problem goes way beyond that.

SA doesn’t have a reliable go-to player to carry SA to a championship. Manu isn’t good enough as a go-to player, plus he is always hurt. Parker isn’t good enough as well.

Manu and Parker are good complementary players, but it has always been all about Timmy. Timmy is no longer a dominant force both ends and good role players like Splitter and Boris won’t change that. Timmy doesn’t attract double-teams anymore and good perimeter players are not afraid to drive at will against San Antonio.

I think it’s time to realize that once Timmy’s game started to decline, SA’s game declined a lot, especially defensively. He made everything possible for SA.

Quite honestly, we simply have to enjoy Timmy’s last years as a Spur. It was a damn good ride. To expect SA to find the savior BIG with min contracts is not very realistic at all.

[DMC]

It's not that I have lost hope in the Spurs because I haven't. I still love watching them play as long as they stay true to the game and play the brand of basketball they're known for playing. I prefer that over monkeyball (but an occasional foray into the jungle is fun). I don't, however, fool myself to the point of being suicidal when reality sets in. I think Pop's job is to field the best team he can for the money and have them playing as best as they can. Outside of that it's really a geographical and human free will issue as the bulk of really good players who are still young enough to be effective in the post season are not migrating to low profile cities. No one on the Timberwolves or Spurs is shooting a movie for Disney or Warner Brothers.

[spurs10]

SA obviously has a problem defensively, but putting it in the back of Splitter, who plays only 19 minutes a game or Diaw, who basically played only half a season in SA, is not fair at all.

The problem goes way beyond that.

SA doesn’t have a reliable go-to player to carry SA to a championship. Manu isn’t good enough as a go-to player, plus he is always hurt. Parker isn’t good enough as well.

Manu and Parker are good complementary players, but it has always been all about Timmy. Timmy is no longer a dominant force both ends and good role players like Splitter and Boris won’t change that. Timmy doesn’t attract double-teams anymore and good perimeter players are not afraid to drive at will against San Antonio.

I think it’s time to realize that once Timmy’s game started to decline, SA’s game declined a lot, especially defensively. He made everything possible for SA.

Quite honestly, we simply have to enjoy Timmy’s last years as a Spur. It was a damn good ride. To expect SA to find the savior BIG with min contracts is not very realistic at all.

I idea of enjoying the end of Tim and Manu's careers is realistically where we are. Although Diaw, Jax, Manu, Kawhi, and Tony were a decent support cast, they're were many others that dropped the ball at the wrong time. We can't play Diaw 48 minutes a game and he doesn't have a back up. The closest we have is Blair, and Blair playing next to Tiago doesn't seem to resonant with Pop. Bonner is a liability in any high pressure situation, so this thread is a legitimate concern.

Another ring? That's pretty far fetched..........

[spurs10]

It's not that I have lost hope in the Spurs because I haven't. I still love watching them play as long as they stay true to the game and play the brand of basketball they're known for playing. I prefer that over monkeyball (but an occasional foray into the jungle is fun). I don't, however, fool myself to the point of being suicidal when reality sets in. I think Pop's job is to field the best team he can for the money and have them playing as best as they can. Outside of that it's really a geographical and human free will issue as the bulk of really good players who are still young enough to be effective in the post season are not migrating to low profile cities. No one on the Timberwolves or Spurs is shooting a movie for Disney or Warner Brothers.

Disney isn't picking up The Sandwich Hunter?? The rest of what you said is dead on.

[dunkman]

The Spurs have to make a trade to add an all-star PF tbh.

[SpurNation]

SA obviously has a problem defensively, but putting it in the back of Splitter, who plays only 19 minutes a game or Diaw, who basically played only half a season in SA, is not fair at all.

The problem goes way beyond that.

SA doesn’t have a reliable go-to player to carry SA to a championship. Manu isn’t good enough as a go-to player, plus he is always hurt. Parker isn’t good enough as well.

Manu and Parker are good complementary players, but it has always been all about Timmy. Timmy is no longer a dominant force both ends and good role players like Splitter and Boris won’t change that. Timmy doesn’t attract double-teams anymore and good perimeter players are not afraid to drive at will against San Antonio.

I think it’s time to realize that once Timmy’s game started to decline, SA’s game declined a lot, especially defensively. He made everything possible for SA.

Quite honestly, we simply have to enjoy Timmy’s last years as a Spur. It was a damn good ride. To expect SA to find the savior BIG with min contracts is not very realistic at all.

REALLY?

OK. It's not ALL the fault of role players. But Tiago was never expected to be just a "role" player. Maybe there was "too" much expectation from him coming from Europe as the MVP and he has shown his true self. But this has nothing to do with Tony or Manu. They have been the consummate left and right hand of Tim. The reason this team has ever been this strong for this long with Duncan.

Feel free (as many of us do) to have reservations about things of the past that (could) have helped this team achieve another championship. But REALLY?...Parker and Manu?

[ElNono]

This thread is about the situation with our 'bigs'... the question isn't if we can win another ship or anything like that...

The questions go more like: Are the Spurs happy with the makeup and depth of their 'bigs'? Should they be? Is the lack of versatility on those positions a legitimate concern?

[SpurNation]

The questions go more like: Are the Spurs happy with the makeup and depth of their 'bigs'? Should they be? Is the lack of versatility on those positions a legitimate concern?

Should be No to the first and second question. Yes to the last question.

As an arm chair GM....the question is...what would you do? I say swing for the fences first. If that doesn't work...get what you can. If that doesn't work...Spurs go into next season with what they got.

Go Spurs Go!!!

[ElNono]

I actually suspect they're mostly happy with that they have (just a gut feeling, obviously) up to the last big (Blair). If that's the case, I can't particularly agree given what I wrote in the OP.

[Bruno]

So, some of you don't think Blair and Bonner are quality bigs?
WoW, I'm chocked. I've never noticed it.

Spurs "bigs" situation is damn obvious and easy to analyze: Duncan is still very good but he is aging, Diaw and Splitter are average, Bonner and Blair are bad. As a whole, Spurs aren't fine at PF/C.

Once the obvious state of Spurs bigs have been said, there is another evidence to say: getting quality bigs is really hard. People have to be patient because, even if Spurs are trying as hard as they can at improving their frontcourt, it isn't an easy task. Hopefully, at some point of the season, there will have an opportunity to improve the frontcourt and Spurs will take it.

[ElNono]

Duncan is still very good but he is aging

I actually suspect this will be even more of an issue this season, with 82 regular season games, and the west possibly even more compe ive in those positions than last season (addition of Howard, Davis, Brand)....

[TD 21]

People have to be patient because, even if Spurs are trying as hard as they can at improving their frontcourt, it isn't an easy task. Hopefully, at some point of the season, there will have an opportunity to improve the frontcourt and Spurs will take it.

People have been patient enough. This is something that they've needed to address, really, since Robinson retired and indisputably so since '08. That shouldn't take 4 or 8 years; not when you're trying to contend, at least. We're not talking about a Howard or Gasol, just someone's who's a legit second big and fills their obvious needs in a big (other than Mahinmi, they haven't even taken a flier on someone with the physical tools they need). Basically, someone slightly under All-Star caliber.

What's worse, I don't think they're really trying to improve the front court. I honestly think they're fine with a Duncan-Diaw-Splitter-Bonner big rotation. I think they'd like to add a Blatche or Martin, but with the intent of mostly being the fifth big (especially Blatche).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they need to target Smith. Not only can they can put together a compe ive package, but it doesn't hurt that Ferry is now running the Hawks. And don't give me this "they don't have anywhere near enough" nonsense. We've seen O'Neal, McGrady, Garnett, Gasol and Howard, all within' the past eight years, dealt for far less than what many thought they'd go for and every one of them was in a different league than Smith. We've also seen plenty of examples of front office people doing favors for friends in other front offices. Given that damn near everyone in the league has come from the Pop tree, it'd be nice if this actually payed off one of these days.

[ElNono]

People have been patient enough. This is something that they've needed to address, really, since Robinson retired and indisputably so since '08. That shouldn't take 4 or 8 years; not when you're trying to contend, at least. We're not talking about a Howard or Gasol, just someone's who's a legit second big and fills their obvious needs in a big (other than Mahinmi, they haven't even taken a flier on someone with the physical tools they need). Basically, someone slightly under All-Star caliber.

To be fair, they did took a flyer with McDyess, presumably trying to address that. Unfortunately, he was over the hill (even though I loved to have him as a Spur).

[SpurNation]

I actually suspect they're mostly happy with that they have (just a gut feeling, obviously) up to the last big (Blair). If that's the case, I can't particularly agree given what I wrote in the OP.

Lets just hope the reports about Blair's offseason routines are true and that he comes back a more improved player if the Spurs aren't going to trade any of their bigs.

[RodNIc91]

I think that the FO is barely fine with the situation because they feel that internal improvements will benefit Splitter and Diaw a lot; mostly Tiago. However I believe that they are looking at any possible situation. One thing Im looking forward to is if they will be willing to deal bonner (Is any front office stupid enough to take him? Then again GSW took RJ). If I had to guess (bearing in mind the possibility that they won't be able to sign anyone before the start of the season) I'd say they would push hard for a trade December-January. Plus don't forget that maybe Dawson comes in. For me our 'Bigs' stands as 2 and a half bigs.

[therealtruth]

If we get back the Splitter that helped us go 8-1 during the RRT I think we will be doing pretty good.

[therealtruth]

So, some of you don't think Blair and Bonner are quality bigs?
WoW, I'm chocked. I've never noticed it.

Spurs "bigs" situation is damn obvious and easy to analyze: Duncan is still very good but he is aging, Diaw and Splitter are average, Bonner and Blair are bad. As a whole, Spurs aren't fine at PF/C.

Once the obvious state of Spurs bigs have been said, there is another evidence to say: getting quality bigs is really hard. People have to be patient because, even if Spurs are trying as hard as they can at improving their frontcourt, it isn't an easy task. Hopefully, at some point of the season, there will have an opportunity to improve the frontcourt and Spurs will take it.

Yeah it's really hard. That's why everyday you hear a big signing with a team. They don't need to be perfect they just need to better than Blair/Bonner.

[elemento]

REALLY?

OK. It's not ALL the fault of role players. But Tiago was never expected to be just a "role" player. Maybe there was "too" much expectation from him coming from Europe as the MVP and he has shown his true self. But this has nothing to do with Tony or Manu. They have been the consummate left and right hand of Tim. The reason this team has ever been this strong for this long with Duncan.

Feel free (as many of us do) to have reservations about things of the past that (could) have helped this team achieve another championship. But REALLY?...Parker and Manu?

Really.

Never took any credit from Manu or Parker in Duncan's ternure. Both are great players and I am a huge Manu fan.

I simply said they're not good enough as go-to players to carry this team to a championship. No shame on that. Only a few players in the NBA can truly carry a team to a championship as go-to players. Duncan could, but can't anymore. Parker and Manu can't.

Once Timmy's game declined, our chances to win went from big to slim, just like that. But if you guys believe Parker or Manu can lead the Spurs to win a championship, feel free to disagree.

As for the situation of our BIGs, I feel that the FO is fine with Duncan and Boris as their starting BIGs and with Splitter as Duncan's backup. I disagree with the OP about Diaw's defense. To me his defense was really good, especially considering how out of shape he was. His low-post defense is very good and he is a really smart defender. He knows how to be in a good position and when to help. He simply needs to be in shape and motivated.

Offensively, yes he is very passive and it's not old news. Once OKC realized it, they simply ignored him and SA's offense took a big hit. Let's see if a whole pre-season with SA helps him in this aspect.

As for Tiago, I don't know if you guys watched him in Spain, but he was never a low-post scorer. I don't even know why some of you guys are complaining about it. He is a p&r roll BIG and has always been one. It's just like complaining about Neal's lack of ball-handling/PG skills when he is a spot-up shooter SG. He shouldn't be playing big minutes as a PG, just like Splitter shouldn't spend too much time in the low-post. That's not their "thing".

With only 19 minutes a game, i'd say Splitter is doing a good job backing up Duncan.

9.3 points/5.2 rebounds/0.8 block FG 61.8% / TS 64.9% PER 20.5 19 min per game

Those are solid numbers for a backup Center.

As for Blair and Bonner I simply don't know what to say. Bonner is the RS fool's gold and Blair is the BIG body that could play significant minutes in the RS to keep the Duncan/Diaw fresh for the playoffs, but once SA gets there, he is useless.