If the HOA did repairs on my house and I refused to pay, it might be a decent point.
As it is, it's not.
From what I've seen, our city's code enforcement is better at keeping neigborhoods looking nice than the HOAs do.
Most of the time the ing HOA ends up calling the city for enforcement assistance any way.
Do you plan on buying a new home?I don't plan on ever buying a house with a HOA because of this stuff, and I have no sympathy for people who chose to.
In the mechanic's lien context, the mechanic services your car thereby adding value. That value-added serves as the basis for the mechanic's security interest in your car. That security interest (the lien) is the consideration you give (meaning, payment) to the mechanic in exchange for his services. That lien is "extinguished" upon payment of your debt obligation to the mechanic.
The HOA functions in almost exactly the same way. While the HOA may or may not perform repairs (in some condominums, HOAs are responsible for certain repairs), the HOA nevertheless provides certain and definite value-add services to your home (security, pool, parks, open-areas, community centers, trails, etc...). Like the mechanic's lien, the HOA develops its own security interest in your home to secure payment from you because you have received the benefit of the value-add services provided by the HOA. That security interest is extinguished/satisfied upon your payment of dues.
They function almost identically. For purposes of this discussion, the claim that HOAs don't provide repair services is spurrious and irrelevant.
Seizing her home for not paying the pool and landscape bill et al seems outrageous to me.
Agree to disagree.
A mechanic is nothing like an HOA.
You are bringing your personal property in for repairs. He directly works on your dilapidated property, bringing it back up to blue book value. He does not "add" value.
The HOA gets paid to maintain common area property that is not directly yours. They do exactly nothing directly to help you repair your own property. Yet they can take it of you don't pay for the maintenance of the common areas.
Based on the way other businesses handle it, there are clearly less evil ways to handle non-payment than to seize the property and sell it for pennies on the dollar.
Putting aside clearer examples (i.e., a materialman's lien for a custom paint job, soundsystem, rims, etc...), the services rendered definitely add value to your car. You say as much yourself when you say "bringing it back up to blue book value." That clearly implies that your car was not at bbv prior to the work done. The car repair guy adds value in the form of servicing your car -- what you have now (after the repairs) is worth more than what you had before the repairs (the below bbv car)
Reread what I wrote. Aside from the condominium situation (where HOAs directly do repairs), the normal HOA case involves value being added through the numerous amenities provided. I never said HOA = Mechanics lien cuz they both do repairs. I said that the HOA adds value to your home in the form of amenities -- and the service of providing those amenities serves as the basis for their security interest in your home.
Liked how the collusion argument was ignored.
Along that vein I decided to actually quantify the relationship between new home construction and HOA's.
http://www.nationalmortgagenews.com/...e=default_techHere’s a fact you may not be aware of: properties governed by homeowner associations are the most rapidly growing form of housing in the U.S. today. Nearly 80% of new home construction is connected with an HOA or community association, according to the Community Associations Ins ute, the trade association representing HOAs.
That's completely ed.
Want eve more ed? It gets better:
In the so-called super lien states—which include 16 states and the District of Columbia—HOAs have priority ahead of the first mortgage. That means an HOA can, by law, collect unpaid dues and fees before a bank can foreclose upon a property. In the remaining 34 states, overdue HOA fees are wiped out by a foreclosure.they even have their own lobbying group and have become a integrated industry.In the case of loan modifications, HOA fees are still owed because there has been no transfer of le. Unfortunately, a servicer may not even be aware of a borrower’s past due HOA fees when considering a loan modification. Having that knowledge would almost certainly help servicers in making decisions on modifications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communi...ions_Ins ute
That's how they get their interests into legislation.
But hey it's legal so that makes it okay....
/vy65
Lame analogy aside, you're now talking out of your ass that ”HOAs add value to a property.” Plenty of neighborhoods have these same amenities with nothing but voluntary membership to the club house, swimming pool, etc.
Hoas simply add middleman fees.
Even then, if the HOA does ”add value” that value will never come close to equaling the value of the house that they seize and sell.
Last edited by Blake; 08-16-2012 at 01:17 AM.
I'm genuinely surprised it's only 80%
I'm surprised it might be that high.
Keep in mind that that figures include all new home construction. You are not including custom homes that are being built out in rural areas or rural areas in general although i expect tthat there some trailer park HOA.
Down near Ralph Fair at i10 they are Centext is building two or three track home complexes. ing $100,000 with HOA built into them. Pay those dues .
Fair Oaks doesn't do that .
The worst HOA I ever had to deal with was a track house that was literally a quarter mile from USAA. It started bad. One of my roommates got faced and carrying on but I think what did it was him pissin on Landro's cardoor.
So they took every opportunity to with us and tow are . They figured out who our friends were and changed the rules so thy could tow their too
I parked in the garage but sure enough they towed my car because I had a bout 2inches of tire on grass so when I wake the Lexus is not there. And so I spent a trip down to the sw depot planning revenge.
One quickover from homeboy and a had me bolt cutter sheers and a bigold bag of gravel. For s sake thoso KB homes needed a bit of HVAC and plumbing maintenance
I can get the thing about legitimate communities like WastLake and Kingwood that need HOA to feed the duck and not have Brandy getting pulled into vans off the greenway then fine.
But if its KB/Centex or any of those other bag types making living in his $85k home calling towtrucks every night to with me and my friends.
They get a bagof gravel in the clearout and and a whole ton of holes in your condensor coil and lineset put the cap on highside and walkaway.
The last 3 months went peaceful and I will never again live in a centex or kb home. the ing wll wasnot mounted and came down as we were walking to the window.
im sad just thinking about it so
i shall stopp.
This surprises no one.
I've never said it was right, simply legal. I'm not even sure I implied it was right, simply only legal.
This hearkens back to my go cry to the Do Nothing Congress.
It really boils down to this:
Do your ing homework before buying a house. You can generally get a good idea about a certain HOA beforehand.
Some offer value, others do not. Do your homework, before you go crying. It is what it is.
So you can buy a new house in an older neighborhood then.
If in order to buy a new home I need to join a HOA, then no. I have my doubts about the notion that you need to join a HOA to buy a new home, at least in the areas I've lived.
It seems outrageous to me too, which is why I'd never join a HOA and sign a contract enabling a HOA to do that to me.
Making a deliberate decision to ignore a steady stream of certified letters and legal notices for a year or more, all over a bill she had the means to pay, is what seems outrageous to me.
Last edited by coyotes_geek; 08-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
I'm crying about being forced to join an HOA if I want to buy a newer home.
It seems stupid to me, but not shocking or ” outrageous” that someone defaulted on their debt in this manner.
Seizing a home valued at 6 figures because of a non payment of debt worth 3 figures is absolutely outrageous to me.
The fact that other neighborhoods have the same amenities with voluntary membership is irrelevant. HOAs add property value by providing those amenities. I'm waiting to hear how they don't.
The wife and husband knowingly and voluntarily signed onto the HOA. They understood what they were receiving and what their obligations were. They assumed the responsibility of fulfilling their obligations to the HOA and in exchange received some benefit. Why are you trying to deprive them of their freedom to contract with who they like on the terms they want?
Why do you think it's ok for people to be irresponsible simply because they feel like it. That's truly evil.
Me too.
Signing a contract enabling someone to seize an asset of yours worth 6 figures for defaulting on a 3 figure payment seems pretty insane to me. I'd buy a less modern home before doing that.
It's what this country has become. Somewhere along the line, it became the government's problem to read the fine print people are too lazy to read.
sure, you could try to find a vacant lot in an older neighborhood and have it custom built, but those are few and far between in my experience.
I also guess if you have the means, you could also tear down the existing structure and start over.
If I didn't see it first hand, I might doubt the notion too.If in order to buy a new home I need to join a HOA, then no. I have my doubts about the notion that you need to join a HOA to buy a new home, at least in the areas I've lived.
Again, if someone can find a new, non-custom built home in an area that doesn't come attached with an HOA, please do me the favor of letting me know. Thanks.
That's really what it comes down to. I get the shock value of, at first blush, seeing a 300k house taken because you didn't pay an $800 tab. But it requires an excessive amount of stupidity and irresponsibility to get to a point where you lose your house over said tab. Does that make an HOA bad? Absolutely not -- they're just exercising their rights after trying to contact this dumb to get paid for a year.
Thinking that this dumb was cheated and should keep this house lets her escape the consequences of her actions and is totally irresponsible. I see a lot of similarities to the bank bailouts here.
HOAs don't provide the amenities. They maintain the amenities put there by the builder.
It's outrageous that a real lawyer would ask someone else to disprove his claim.
I'm not saying it's ok for people to be irresponsible.The wife and husband knowingly and voluntarily signed onto the HOA. They understood what they were receiving and what their obligations were. They assumed the responsibility of fulfilling their obligations to the HOA and in exchange received some benefit. Why are you trying to deprive them of their freedom to contract with who they like on the terms they want?
Why do you think it's ok for people to be irresponsible simply because they feel like it. That's truly evil.
Since I've already made this very clear already in this thread, I'm now saying you're a complete idiot.
it's my phone!
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