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  1. #1
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    Liberals and Democrats tore into Bush 24/7 for doing it yet Obama gets a free pass. Liberals and Democrats ed about Gitmo, The Patriot Act, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, drones, illegal wiretaps, etc... when Bush did it but they're silent when Obama does it. I just honestly laugh at these Obama supporters and lovers that are so delusional and ignorant on this . They're 100 percent supportive of The Patriot Act, the NDAA, nation building in the Middle East, drone attacks, and pretty much anything that Bush did fighting the so-called war on terror when their guy Obama does it. in' sheep.

    Obama isn't a liberal when it comes to foreign policy and the war on terror. He is a warmongering neo-con just like Bush. And you've got his supporters being 100 percent supportive of going into Syria and doing some nation building.

  2. #2
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    And you've got his supporters being 100 percent supportive of going into Syria and doing some nation building.
    They might want to rethink this.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fa626...#axzz24E4V6Nr5

    BEIRUT – Russia warned the west on Tuesday against unilateral action on Syria, a day after US President Barack Obama threatened “enormous consequences” if his Syrian counterpart used chemical or biological arms or even moved them in a menacing way.
    Sergei Lavrov, Russian foreign minister, speaking after meeting China’s top diplomat, said Moscow and Beijing were committed to “the need to strictly adhere to the norms of international law . . . and not to allow their violation”.

    Qadri Jamil, Syrian deputy prime minister, also speaking in Moscow, dismissed Mr Obama’s threat as media fodder. “Direct military intervention in Syria is impossible because whoever thinks about it . . . is heading towards a confrontation wider than Syria’s borders,” he told a news conference.
    Mr Jamil said the west was seeking an excuse to intervene, likening the focus on Syria’s chemical weapons to the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq on what proved to be groundless su ions that Saddam Hussein was concealing weapons of mass destruction.
    He also appeared to suggest that Mr Assad’s departure could be discussed if talks between the government, the rebels and the international community ever took place, but ruled out the president’s resignation as a precondition. “After the dialogue begins, there’s nothing that should prevent the discussion of any issue – and that [Mr Assad’s position] is a question that can be discussed as well,” he said.
    Russia and China have opposed military intervention in Syria throughout a 17-month-old revolt against President Bashar al-Assad. They have vetoed three UN Security Council resolutions backed by western and Arab states that would have put more pressure on Damascus to end violence that has cost 18,000 lives.
    In one of the latest battle zones, Syrian troops and tanks overran the Damascus suburbs of Mouadamiya on Tuesday, killing at least 20 young men and burning shops and houses before pulling back, residents and opposition activists said.
    The bodies of the men, mostly shot at point-blank range, were found in basements and looted premises, bringing to 50 the death toll from the army’s two-day offensive to drive rebels from the Sunni Muslim suburb in the south-west of the capital.
    “People are just starting to get out of their homes to see the destruction,” said one activist who gave her name as Hayat.
    Opposition sources said Free Syrian Army rebels left Mouadamiya at dawn under heavy aerial and ground bombardment.
    State-imposed curbs on media made it impossible to verify the reports of the violence, which followed another bloody day on Monday, when about 200 people were killed across the country, according to the opposition Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
    On Tuesday the Higher Leadership Council for the Syrian Revolution, an opposition group, claimed that Syria’s air force had redeployed 30 Sukhoi fighter-bomber Su-22 jets closer to cities where the army is battling to crush rebels in the north and east of the country.
    “This type of Sukhoi is more geared to bombing missions than aerial combat. They are now within a more manageable range to hit the cities of Aleppo, Homs and Deir al-Zor and areas in Idlib province,” a spokesman for the group told Reuters from Amman.
    Mr Obama used some of his strongest language yet on Monday to warn Mr Assad not to use unconventional weapons.
    “We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is [if] we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilised,” he said. “That would change my calculus.”
    Syria last month acknowledged for the first time that it had chemical or biological weapons and said it could use them if foreign countries attacked it.
    The US-based Global Security website says there are four suspected chemical weapons sites in Syria producing the nerve agents VX, sarin and tabun. It does not cite its sources.
    Israel, still formally at war with Syria, has also debated whether to attack the unconventional arms sites, which it views as its gravest peril from the conflict next door.
    ● TRIPOLI – Four people were killed and more than 60 wounded in clashes between Sunni Muslims and Alawites in Lebanon’s northern city of Tripoli as the war in neighbouring Syria inflamed tensions there again, security and medical sources said on Tuesday.
    Gunmen in the Sunni district of Bab al-Tabbaneh and their Alawite rivals in Jebel Mohsen exchanged gun and grenade fire in sporadic fighting overnight and into the day, despite action by Lebanese troops deployed in the port city, residents said.
    The area is one of Lebanon’s most volatile sectarian fault lines and tensions in Tripoli have been heightened by the uprising in Syria. Clashes in the city killed 15 people in early June.

  3. #3
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Liberals and Democrats tore into Bush 24/7 for doing it yet Obama gets a free pass. Liberals and Democrats ed about Gitmo, The Patriot Act, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, drones, illegal wiretaps, etc... when Bush did it but they're silent when Obama does it. I just honestly laugh at these Obama supporters and lovers that are so delusional and ignorant on this . They're 100 percent supportive of The Patriot Act, the NDAA, nation building in the Middle East, drone attacks, and pretty much anything that Bush did fighting the so-called war on terror when their guy Obama does it. in' sheep.

    Obama isn't a liberal when it comes to foreign policy and the war on terror. He is a warmongering neo-con just like Bush. And you've got his supporters being 100 percent supportive of going into Syria and doing some nation building.
    Don't call him a neocon. He's a typical liberal like Johnson was, who took us to war with Viet-Nam, and grew the social welfare state.

  4. #4
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It's the reason Barry isn't getting my vote.

  5. #5
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    more reasons why this is a bad idea

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/russia-chin...064452353.html

    MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned the West on Tuesday against any unilateral action on Syria after President Barack Obama said U.S. forces could act if the Syrian leader deployed chemical weapons against rebels trying to topple him.
    Russia and China have opposed military intervention in Syria throughout 17 months of bloodshed and have vetoed three U.N. Security Council resolutions backed by Western and Arab states that would have raised pressure on Damascus to end violence.
    Lavrov spoke at a meeting with China's top diplomat one day after Obama, in some of his strongest language yet, said U.S. forces could move against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad if he resorted to chemical weapons against insurgents.
    Russia and China base their diplomatic cooperation on "the need to strictly adhere to the norms of international law and the principles contained in the U.N. Charter, and not to allow their violation", Lavrov said at a meeting with Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo.
    "I think this is the only correct path in today's conditions," Lavrov told Dai, who also met President Vladimir Putin and his top security adviser, Nikolai Patrushev, on Monday for consultations went unannounced by the Kremlin.
    Lavrov's remarks underscored Moscow's wish to keep international efforts to end Syria's crisis within the United Nations, where Russia and China wield clout as two of the five permanent Security Council members with veto power.
    Frustrated by the vetoes and by the refusal of Russia and China to join calls for Assad to leave power, the United States and other Western and Arab countries are seeking other ways to exert influence on the situation in Syria.
    NO LIBYA REPEAT
    Obama said on Monday he had refrained "at this point" from ordering military engagement in Syria. But when asked whether he might deploy forces, for example to secure Syrian chemical and biological weapons, he said his view could change.
    Russia has also expressed concern about Syria chemical weapons, saying it had told Damascus that even the threat to use them was unacceptable.
    But Lavrov said on Monday that the Security Council alone could authorize the use of external force against Syria, warning against imposing "democracy by bombs".
    Russian leaders have said they are determined to avoid a repeat of what occurred in 2011 in Libya, when Moscow let NATO military operations go ahead by abstaining from Security Council resolution that authorized air operations.
    Russian officials then accused the United States and its allies of overstepping their mandate and using it to help rebels overthrow longtime leader Muammar Gaddafi. Putin, prime minister then but now back in official charge of foreign policy, likened the U.N. resolution to "medieval calls for crusades".
    Russia denies that it is propping up Assad and says it would accept his exit in a political transition decided by the Syrian people, but that his departure must not be a precondition and he must not be pushed out by external forces.
    Putin, who has faced frequent U.S. and European criticism over his treatment of dissent, has made opposition to foreign intervention in sovereign states on human rights grounds a central plank of his foreign policy in his new presidency.
    China has issued similar warnings to the West.
    In remarks at the start of his otherwise private meeting with Dai and other officials, Lavrov said the opportunity to discuss coordination on global affairs was "very, very timely".
    Dai, speaking through an interpreter, said he was in Russia for "consultations on strategic security" and had had a "very good, friendly and important meeting" with Putin.
    A Syrian delegation led by Qadri Jamil, deputy prime minister for economic affairs, was also in Moscow on Tuesday and was expected to meet Foreign Ministry officials. It was Jamil's second visit this month.

  6. #6
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    He is a neo-con when it comes to foreign policy and war. He is a nation building war monger. Wake the up.

  7. #7
    Believe. mercos's Avatar
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    Liberals have been all over his ass on the NDAA and civil liberties issues. As for nation building, the only reason Dubya caught flak for that is because he specifically said he was against it while campaigning in 2000. As for Obama, he has us mostly out of Iraq, he has a pullout plan in place for Afghanistan, and he did not commit us to nation building in Libya after bombing the place.

    Obama has done a lot of liberals haven't liked (no public option in Republican based health care reform, weak Wall Street reform, extension of Bush tax cuts, etc.) and there has been plenty of complaining. If you think that means liberals are going to turn around and vote for Mitt Romney, then you are crazy.

  8. #8
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    Other than Glenn Greenwald, name a liberal that has bashed Obama on the NDAA, the Patriot Act, and civil liberties. Has George Clooney, Ben Affleck, Jared Leto, Mark Ruffalo, Sean Penn, Joy Behar, Angelina Jolie, Tom Hanks, Olivia Wilde, Will Smith, etc... said anything about it?
    Matt Damon has bashed Obama but he did not mention the civil liberties crap. He basically said Obama didn't bring any hope and change to the table.

    Of course, liberals and Democrats won't vote for Romney because Obama is their guy.
    I do find it hilarious and amusing that liberals haven't attacked Romney on foreign policy and nation building because they know they would be hypocrites since Romney and Obama are basically the same on foreign policy, war, and the military.


    What about Syria? You ready for some nation building over there? America should provide the sick, wounded, and displaced with aid but no nation building please. I don't have a problem with America helping people, but going into another country and saying "you're gonna do it this way or we're gonna force you to do it this way" is not okay in my opinion.

    Obama didn't get U.S. troops out of Iraq. I laugh and smile when people make that claim. Iraq got the U.S. troops out of Iraq because they basically told America to get the out and said that they would stop giving immunity to U.S. forces in Iraq. Thank you. Besides, this agreement was made when evil Bush was president.

  9. #9
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    liberals are hypocrites, they will defend "their guy" no matter what because of some misplaced party loyalty. the divide in this country is just too huge to ever be bridged.

  10. #10
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Who the defends Obama anymore? The guy's a piece of and it's a disgrace that the choice is between him and Romney in what looks like the worst presidential election since Bush/Gore in 2000. , this one looks even worse when you factor in the Ryan plan.

  11. #11
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    It's the reason Barry isn't getting my vote.
    Dude, your election was last month; lo siento you were on siesta, but Enrique Peña Nieto already won. When are you guys going to elect someone to end the Maseca subsidies and return them back to maíz so I can get some decent nixtamal damnit?
    Last edited by baseline bum; 08-22-2012 at 02:57 AM.

  12. #12
    All Hail the Legatron The Reckoning's Avatar
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    greatest pres in history

  13. #13
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    To be fair, both neo-cons and liberals defend their leaders with an iron fist and blind obedience. I think Obama sucks but I don't want him to suck. I don't want things to be ty in America. I'm not one of these hateful neo-cons that wants Obama to suck ass just because they hate him or because he's half black or a so-called liberal.
    Things might be ty in America but you could live in Somalia, the Gaza Strip, or North Korea. Have to count your blessings.

    I know that Democrats and Republicans hate hearing this but America needs and deserves a legitimate 3rd party.

  14. #14
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    Who the defends Obama anymore? The guy's a piece of and it's a disgrace that the choice is between him and Romney in what looks like the worst presidential election since Bush/Gore in 2000. , this one looks even worse when you factor in the Ryan plan.
    either way ur force to vote for one of them, and u know what ur gettin from either one anyway

    if you clowns can accept bush 2 terms, then might as well accept obama for 2nd term.....if it aint broken, dont fix it...even if the pace of nation rebuilding is slow...compared to voting in some unknown guy...the damage has been done.

  15. #15
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    you've apparently not read many of my posts here. or El Nono's. or LnGrrRs. there's a solid contingent of ST posters who've been giving Obama the business on precisely these two things for awhile.

    (you can check. advanced search function is your friend)

  16. #16
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    What nation has Obama decided to build that the US wasn't already committed to by dubya and head? Nobody can stop wars (Obama got trashed by the Repugs for keeping dubya's Iraq pullout agreemet) or stop those investments. They take on a logic and momentum of their own.

    That's why I said years ago the dubya/ head/neocons started would cost the USA for decades.

    Then throw in the conservative/libertarian deregulation of finance and tax cutting, you've got impoverishment of the 99% with ridiculous inequality and empowerment of the 1% and the UCA that will require a civil war to reverse.

    In dubya's famously silly logic, "our military men have to keep wasting their lives to honor the military men who already wasted their lives (for oil)"

    If you right-wingers think Gecko and Repugs will stop the neo-con, God-wants-USA-to-own-the-planet foreign policy of dubya/ head/neo-cons, or stop the Petraeus' planet-wide murdering and secret invasions, then look at the neo-cons working in Gecko's campaign, who want to go into Iran (for oil).
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 08-22-2012 at 06:20 AM.

  17. #17
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    and that's what you do: give Obama a free ride for everything bad he does. absurdly, you blame the party not in power.

  18. #18
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    Obama versus Romney......I'd rather just sit this one out.


    Having said that, Obama versus Romney is almost a perfect metaphor for our ed up, blue versue red political system....you know, the system that guys like boutons are in love with.

  19. #19
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    @Jacob1983: for an example of a progressive lib who criticizes Obama harshly on nation building and civil liberties, you should check out Glenn Greenwald's articles on Slate.

  20. #20
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    and that's what you do: give Obama a free ride for everything bad he does. absurdly, you blame the party not in power.
    bull ing . I don't give Obama a free ride.

    It'sthat started decades ago (financial deregulation leading to the Banksters' Great Depression, one of many, inevitable 1%-enricher events to come) and under dubya/ head unstoppable, and very probably irreversible (wars, civil liberties violations, unlimited surveillance by UCA and govt of civilians) are stoppable by Presidential edict.

    And Gecko/Ryan/Repugs won't stop any of it. They will certainly make it all much worse, as they have plainly, repeatedly announced, including going after Iran's oil (which of course they don't mention now).

  21. #21
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    the system that guys like boutons are in love with.
    You ing Lie, stalker

  22. #22
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    And Gecko/Ryan/Repugs won't stop any of it.
    neither will Obama, who surely has made it worse

  23. #23
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  24. #24
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    liberals are hypocrites, they will defend "their guy" no matter what because of some misplaced party loyalty. the divide in this country is just too huge to ever be bridged.
    There's idiots like that in both parties, even though their establishments do the same when in power.... the two-party paradigm is a joke, tbh.....

  25. #25
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    There's idiots like that in both parties, even though their establishments do the same when in power.... the two-party paradigm is a joke, tbh.....
    I've often said that the very people that constantly post in the political forum are a wonderful example of this. Look at Boutons/GGA/etc versus Yoni/Wild Cobra/etc....they ing love the red versus blue, wouldn't have it any other way imo.


    They're the reason this country is going to .....well, not them exactly, since posting on this site does nothing (repeat nbaDan, nothing) to contribute to society....but the thought process they have anyway.

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