Did TD EVER have a worst supporting cast than this?

[DMC]

Three issues with your theories:

1) I'm as American as apple pie. I'm just stationed in Japan.
2) He had the worst supporting cast det year than him or TD ever had. Not worse, but the worst.
3) The Lakers made the playoffs in 2006-2007 with det ty supporting cast. Just speaks to Kobe's greatness.

Give him a competent supporting cast and he delivers. 7 Finals in 16 years of play says I'm right. And even in his 17th year he's a good bet to get to the big dance again. This time with an upgraded, balanced supporting cast. Neal with it.

So you start posting at what, 2am?

[LkrFan]

Look up the Braves/Celtics franchise swap, B.... 13 rangs,

Nope. Basketball reference says you are a liar. A funny one though.

[LkrFan]

So you start posting at what, 2am?

Nope. It is 0651, Wednesday, 22 Aug 2012, in the morning for me. It's like Tuesday afternoon for you guys and still 21 Aug 2012. Consider me from the future.

Only times I post at 0200 or so is if it is a playoff game ANSI don't want to watch the replay on DVR.

[ElNono]

LeBron was never a target on this board. At least not like Kobe is tbh.

you just mad coz you had to change your avatar, tbh

[LkrFan]

you just mad coz you had to change your avatar, tbh

not really. He still has only one rang. He's four in the hole as far as I'm concerned. I don't see him getting another one for a while. Lakers are stacked and the Thunder will improve. Miami has 3 semi-max contracts on the books. That means they can only support LBJ/Wade/Bosh with scrap players. The Lakers, OTOH, could give a Jean Claude Van Damn about a salary cap or a super tax. So we will always be a threat. After 2014, only Nash and presumably D-12 is on the books. That's only about $30M in salary and I'm sure the Lakers will find a few FAs or make trades to reload again. My new avatar is the troof tbh.

[nowhereman523]

Suddenly Kobe's better because he missed the playoffs in his prime? Nice logic.

[LkrFan]

Suddenly Kobe's better because he missed the playoffs in his prime? Nice logic.

Mvs

[Ace]

not really. He still has only one rang. He's four in the hole as far as I'm concerned. I don't see him getting another one for a while. Lakers are stacked and the Thunder will improve. Miami has 3 semi-max contracts on the books. That means they can only support LBJ/Wade/Bosh with scrap players. The Lakers, OTOH, could give a Jean Claude Van Damn about a salary cap or a super tax. So we will always be a threat. After 2014, only Nash and presumably D-12 is on the books. That's only about $30M in salary and I'm sure the Lakers will find a few FAs or make trades to reload again. My new avatar is the troof tbh.

Miami is younger and their big 3 in their prime but yet somehow the Lakers have a bigger window?

[ambchang]

@El Nono: I did realize that Laker fan started this thread but just take a look at the recent threads and polls and pretty much Kobe is a theme in at least half. And the ones that aren't somehow he gets mentioned by Kobe fans and haters alike.

@Ambchang: Maybe he is not athreat but you "doth protestway too much" ... to think otherwise. How many MJ fans come on here to say Mj is better than Kobe? No need because we ALL know the answer. Like I said, I think it's CLOSE but I give Kobe the edge (over Duncan not MJ) Anyone that argues it's not close ...either way (Kobe or Timmy) is really doesnt know much about ball imho.

Where the were you? Jordan > Kobe was in full force a few years ago, when those clueless Kobe fans came out and proclaim so, and ESPN is trying to generate some viewer ship. Over the years, even those clueless Laker fans realized how stupid it was, and that movement died.

Kobe vs. Duncan is not close my friend. Kobe vs. Halivcek is close. Kobe's successful teams (by that I mean WCF+) are all loaded teams compared to the rest of the league in their respective times, where as Duncan's successful teams have been mediocre to great. Look at Duncan's 2000-2004 teams, the support was really nothing overly special. Are those good supporting casts? Of course, but they were by no means great. The 08 to current group is mediocre, but that doesn't matter, because Duncan is past his prime, TOSB if you will.

[ambchang]

LeBron was never a target on this board. At least not like Kobe is tbh.

Because Heat fans are not as stupid/numerous as Laker fans, and Heat doesn't have much of a rivalry with the Spurs.

[racm]

Where the were you? Jordan > Kobe was in full force a few years ago, when those clueless Kobe fans came out and proclaim so, and ESPN is trying to generate some viewer ship. Over the years, even those clueless Laker fans realized how stupid it was, and that movement died.

Kobe vs. Duncan is not close my friend. Kobe vs. Halivcek is close. Kobe's successful teams (by that I mean WCF+) are all loaded teams compared to the rest of the league in their respective times, where as Duncan's successful teams have been mediocre to great. Look at Duncan's 2000-2004 teams, the support was really nothing overly special. Are those good supporting casts? Of course, but they were by no means great. The 08 to current group is mediocre, but that doesn't matter, because Duncan is past his prime, TOSB if you will.

Kobe never got to the WCF without Shaq/Pau, just saying.

And Duncan's 2003 supporting cast:

Tony Parker (2nd year player, still benched by Pop for Claxton/Kerr a lot)
Steve Smith (lost his starting job midway through the season)
Bruce Bowen (had yet to make his mark, even though he was a good defender even back in Miami)
David Robinson (on the way out, TOSB through and through)
Stephen Jackson (journeyman, perfect definition of volume scoring role player)
Manu Ginobili (rookie; would not take over games until a couple of seasons afterwards)
Danny Ferry (Bonner prototype, but not as good a 3 pt shooter)
Steve Kerr (only needs to hit 3s)
Malik Rose (energy guy off the bench; only decent bench big)
Speedy Claxton (did... nothing of note after that season)
Kevin Willis (TOSB)

And Duncan carried that sorry bunch to a le.

Because Heat fans are not as stupid/numerous as Laker fans, and Heat doesn't have much of a rivalry with the Spurs.

I'd argue Heat fan and Spur fan get along a lot, except when they're playing each other. Then there's the Bowen factor.

[LkrFan]

Miami is younger and their big 3 in their prime but yet somehow the Lakers have a bigger window?

Wade has about 2-3 years left of eliteness IMO. And that is assuming his surgery takes well and he comes back the same. For his sake I hope I'm wrong because I don't want any excuses.

The Lakers, OTOH, has a much better track record of perennially being contenders sans two intentional tank years (Eddie Jones and Andrew Bynum were the last two). This new CBA ain't . As you can see we have a world class FO/ownership team. We were still able to pry Orlando's franchise player from them without giving up Pau. That's our MO. Get a premiere big and build around him (Mikan, KAJ, Shaq, Howard). Howard has about 7-8 good years left - which is our new window provided the FO continues to add pieces. Remember, after 2014, Kobe and Pau's $50M are coming off the books. Only Nash and presumably Howard will be on the books (about $30M by my guess). They'll be primed to reload again - hence my thoughts that our window is just as open as the Heat's.

[Ace]

Wade has about 2-3 years left of eliteness IMO. And that is assuming his surgery takes well and he comes back the same. For his sake I hope I'm wrong because I don't want any excuses.

The Lakers, OTOH, has a much better track record of perennially being contenders sans two intentional tank years (Eddie Jones and Andrew Bynum were the last two). This new CBA ain't . As you can see we have a world class FO/ownership team. We were still able to pry Orlando's franchise player from them without giving up Pau. That's our MO. Get a premiere big and build around him (Mikan, KAJ, Shaq, Howard). Howard has about 7-8 good years left - which is our new window provided the FO continues to add pieces. Remember, after 2014, Kobe and Pau's $50M are coming off the books. Only Nash and presumably Howard will be on the books (about $30M by my guess). They'll be primed to reload again - hence my thoughts that our window is just as open as the Heat's.

Heat will build around LeBron and Bosh, so their window is fine. Wade should be on a lower contract by 2014 and could very well still be at all star level.

[ambchang]

Wade has about 2-3 years left of eliteness IMO. And that is assuming his surgery takes well and he comes back the same. For his sake I hope I'm wrong because I don't want any excuses.

The Lakers, OTOH, has a much better track record of perennially being contenders sans two intentional tank years (Eddie Jones and Andrew Bynum were the last two). This new CBA ain't . As you can see we have a world class FO/ownership team. We were still able to pry Orlando's franchise player from them without giving up Pau. That's our MO. Get a premiere big and build around him (Mikan, KAJ, Shaq, Howard). Howard has about 7-8 good years left - which is our new window provided the FO continues to add pieces. Remember, after 2014, Kobe and Pau's $50M are coming off the books. Only Nash and presumably Howard will be on the books (about $30M by my guess). They'll be primed to reload again - hence my thoughts that our window is just as open as the Heat's.

FINALLY, even a Laker fan can tell their favourite franchise has always built around bigs.

[LkrFan]

FINALLY, even a Laker fan can tell their favourite franchise has always built around bigs.

Stop my . Right now it's still Kobe's team.

[nowhereman523]

Mvs

saying a player is better because he missed the playoffs in his prime
you're dumb as crap

[BanditHiro]

And Duncan's 2003 supporting cast:

Tony Parker (2nd year player, still benched by Pop for Claxton/Kerr a lot)
Steve Smith (lost his starting job midway through the season)
Bruce Bowen (had yet to make his mark, even though he was a good defender even back in Miami)
David Robinson (on the way out, TOSB through and through)
Stephen Jackson (journeyman, perfect definition of volume scoring role player)
Manu Ginobili (rookie; would not take over games until a couple of seasons afterwards)
Danny Ferry (Bonner prototype, but not as good a 3 pt shooter)
Steve Kerr (only needs to hit 3s)
Malik Rose (energy guy off the bench; only decent bench big)
Speedy Claxton (did... nothing of note after that season)
Kevin Willis (TOSB)

And Duncan carried that sorry bunch to a le.

Pretty much the reason why Duncan is in the top 10 and better than Kobe...

[LkrFan]

Pretty much the reason why Duncan is in the top 10 and better than Kobe...

Disagree. Kobe won back to back les without a HOF teammate. Neither Magic, Bird, nor MJ did that. Duncan actually had one and couldn't repeat. The above you mentioned is moot IMO.

[BoricuaCJA]

Stop my . Right now it's still Kobe's team.

He didn't . He just quoted word for word what you just said. Kobe has ALWAYS been big man dependent.

[LkrFan]

Heat will build around LeBron and Bosh, so their window is fine. Wade should be on a lower contract by 2014 and could very well still be at all star level.

I don't doubt that their window is fine. Riles is a boss. I'm just saying don't think the Lakers won't be able to reload which tells me that their window is fine as well. I can't think of too many players that won't want to go play with D-12 in Los Angeles, CA. Especially when they know the Lakers will have upwards of $50M in available cap space after the 2013-2014 season.

[LkrFan]

He didn't . He just quoted word for word what you just said. Kobe has ALWAYS been big man dependent.

See, now your dishonest ass is intentionally misquoting me. I basically said that their MO is to obtain the premiere big man in the game (if possible) then build around him. In 1996, that 24 year old monster clearly was the prized acquisition in the entire NBA. Of course Kobe wasn't the player that they built around back then. Kobe was Robin up until about 2003 IMO when he was emerging as not only the best SG in the game but also easily a top 5 player. At that time I'd say they were on the same level. Shaq saw that Kobe was no longer inferior to him that's when the drama started to boil over. Not even Payton and Malone in 2004 could put out the flames so to speak. We know how that season ended. Then they tanked to get their next potential big man (Bynum in 2005) to start the process over again.

But back on topic. Nowhere in my post did I explicitly say that Kobe is big man dependent.

[Koolaid_Man]

See, now your dishonest ass is intentionally misquoting me. I basically said that their MO is to obtain the premiere big man in the game (if possible) then build around him. In 1996, that 24 year old monster clearly was the prized acquisition in the entire NBA. Of course Kobe wasn't the player that they built around back then. Kobe was Robin up until about 2003 IMO when he was emerging as not only the best SG in the game but also easily a top 5 player. At that time I'd say they were on the same level. Shaq saw that Kobe was no longer inferior to him that's when the drama started to boil over. Not even Payton and Malone in 2004 could put out the flames so to speak. We know how that season ended. Then they tanked to get their next potential big man (Bynum in 2005) to start the process over again.

But back on topic. Nowhere in my post did I explicitly say that Kobe is big man dependent.

hey man don't argue with them..they're mad and upset because we got Dwight and Nash!!! and....and.... all we gave up was a .25 cent bag of original Lay's potato chips and a few lemon heads...

do like I do...just gloat and flex my muscle ...those es know that Kool don't bar none

[Clipper Nation]

Disagree. Kobe won back to back les without a HOF teammate.

He had a dominant frontcourt duo, a Sixth Man of the Year, and an HOF coach during that time....

When Food Stamps was REALLY the #1 option, he missed the playoffs one year in his prime, quit on his team the next year, and then started demanding a trade.....

Meanwhile, when Duncan was the unquestioned top dog, he rang multiple times and EARNED two MVP's (unlike the one pity MVP that Food Stamps was handed)....

[Clipper Nation]

hey man don't argue with them..they're mad and upset because we got Dwight and Nash!!!

Or we're mad about having to read the usual ful takes from Lkr ....

and....and.... all we gave up was a .25 cent bag of original Lay's potato chips and a few lemon heads...

Funny how, in the eyes of the actual Lakerfans you're imitating, Bynum went from the best center in the league as a Laker, to "a .25 cent bag of original Lay's potato chips and a few lemon heads" now....

[BanditHiro]

...

in all seriousness what's your beef? Kobe is still going to go down as one of the top 15-20 players of all-time, first ballot hall-of-fame...any fan should be proud.