USADA says it will strip Armstrong of 7 Tour de France les

[Slomo]

...

It's really a witch hunt. There are some big players pushing for this.

It is.

"Ass whooping"


Because he was cheating

Sure he was, but as the tests at the time proved, not more than the others.

All 7 of his les would go to people who are also involved in doping scandals



http://deadspin.com/5937591/all-seve...s-of-their-own

nice find.

Everyone knows he cheated (or so I thought). The testing finally caught up.

Sure he did, but so did the others. It doesn't make it right, but if we're going down that road let's strip the les of at least two decades of TDF and let's not give it to the runner ups, who are guilty of the exact same thing (and don't get me started on the UCI officials).

I never liked Armstrong as a person or as an athlete, but let's start the clean up a little bit higher.

I'll say it again the best thing to come out of all these controversies was that doping is now being addressed in a serious fashion by the UCI.

[Slomo]

some random thoughts

Lance was very unpopular also because he acted like an ass during his reign.

Cyclism doping is an issue since almost forever, in the 70's cyclists already used drugs to improve their performance. Mercks was known to be one of the most knowledgeable guy in terms of doping. The famous pot belge (mixture of drugs, variously cons uted from cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines, and other analgesics) appeared in the late 80's.

I'm not sure about a drop of road races performance tbh. The overall performance of Bradley Wiggins has been damn impressive everywhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he was loaded like during this tour. Dude has made all his career in pursuit and his progress in mountains in the last 3 or 4 years has been gigantic. One can wonder how.

If somebody thinks that he was clean, he is a fool.

I agree with all of the above, except that Wiggins dominated only in his specialty (time trials), while I blame a part of his progress in the mountain stages simply to the fact that the stages have been easier in the past few years. They are either easier or there are less of them in the classic multi stage road races. This year's TDF was by far the easiest (and most boring) as far as I can remember.

Wiggins also had the best supporting cast of this year's TDF.

To assume everything is fine an dandy in cyclism would be naive, but look at how the testing is done now and by whom and you have to admit that if they are still cheating it's not easier than in any other sport (of course just because I said that we'll find out tomorrow of a huge corruption scandal in the UCI test labs...)

[Mark in Austin]

If he was going to lose anyway, he should have gone to arbitration and looked everybody in the eye and stated his case. Folding now give the impression that he doesn't want the testimony out there. "No physical evidence in 140 tests" is pretty compelling. Even if he lost the case he could win the court of public opinion. And really, at this stage of his life, that's the trial that matters most.

Did he cheat? I don't know. But somehow all the euro investigations uncovered a lot of cheating from other riders. How come there was never a positive test for Armstrong? He has to be the most tested athlete in history.

[jag]

With all the cheating that was going on, I'm not sure how anyone could say he wasn't competing on a level playing field. He was killing people out there, and it was because he was better than everyone.

To those who say it wasn't "fair",and that his les should be stripped, that'd be like removing Barry Bond's HR records because it wasn't fair to McGwire and Sosa.

[Bill_Brasky]

With all the cheating that was going on, I'm not sure how anyone could say he wasn't competing on a level playing field. He was killing people out there, and it was because he was better than everyone.

To those who say it wasn't "fair",and that his les should be stripped, that'd be like removing Barry Bond's HR records because it wasn't fair to McGwire and Sosa.

Nail on the head. Everyone was doping, Lance was simply better than everyone else. The way he would take over on those uphill climbs was just incredible.

Anyone that can come back from testicular cancer and do that is a hero in my book.

[jag]

I'd like everyone to also take something else into consideration. Not only was he consistently that much better than everyone else at cycling, he was also that much better at cheating. After hundreds of tries, he still hasn't tested positive. Not only should his les not be stripped, he should receive an extra award for being the smartest, wiliest sob to ever race the Tour.

[Koolaid_Man]

A few comments, because the level of stupidity in this thread is just too much.

If Lance Armstrong is stripped of his TDF les, the only people crying about it will be Americans, Lance is very unpopular among European cyclist because of the absolute ass whooping he delivered during his years of dominance.

The allegation of doping against Lance started in Europe (France if I'm not mistaken) and spawned several serious investigations (by the UCI and local police). This caused a major reshuffle within the UCI to address doping issues. The sport has since then made enormous progress and is today as drug free as other major international compe ions - and it is common knowledge that cyclism had a huge doping problem as little as 5 years ago. Even a casual observer can notice an overall drop in performance in road races.

The Spanish, Italian and French cyclist organizations absolutely hated how Lance came from almost nowhere and dominated the TDF for so long, so believe me they tried to prove he was using drugs very hard. It is ironic that their investigations disqualified a lot of their own cyclists (among them some really big names) and they eventually accepted Armstrong's victories.

The irony of it all is that Americans were crying foul during those European investigations and accused everybody involved of nationalism and borderline racism - and now it's an American ins ution that is trying to strip him of his les (and based on shaky evidence at best).

All you had to say was "I agree with Kool"

[Slomo]

All you had to say was "I agree with Kool"

I'll never admit to that!

[Brazil]

I agree with all of the above, except that Wiggins dominated only in his specialty (time trials), while I blame a part of his progress in the mountain stages simply to the fact that the stages have been easier in the past few years. They are either easier or there are less of them in the classic multi stage road races. This year's TDF was by far the easiest (and most boring) as far as I can remember.

Wiggins also had the best supporting cast of this year's TDF.

To assume everything is fine an dandy in cyclism would be naive, but look at how the testing is done now and by whom and you have to admit that if they are still cheating it's not easier than in any other sport (of course just because I said that we'll find out tomorrow of a huge corruption scandal in the UCI test labs...)

It is true that mountain stages have been lightened a lot in the last TDF and while it is more boring I think it is a good action to limit the doping. I mean this compe ion is crazy hard almost inhuman. To try to limit the doping they have to decrease the difficulty at some point.

Cheating in cycling especially TDF is much more complicated than in other sport. Cycling has been the scapegoat of the professional sport during a lot of years also because of the efforts to fight the doping, controls are still not 100% efficient but the police is involved and is investigating the docs, the family, the witnesses... Remember the Rumsas story ? they found in his car's wife big quan ies of doping products. It's easier to attack cycling than football, the financial stakes are not at all the same. In football one would be very naive to think this sport is clean creatin to explain Zidane's muscular development.

[Brazil]

Did he cheat? I don't know. But somehow all the euro investigations uncovered a lot of cheating from other riders. How come there was never a positive test for Armstrong? He has to be the most tested athlete in history.

If you are clever it is possible to cheat the controls. They were / are doing crazy stuff to cheat the controls, urine bags carried under their jersey, blood transfusion, blood cleaning... One of the measure to fight that is unannounced controls during the off season or the rider profile with a monitoring of the riders metabolic indicators all year long but I think France is the only country to have implemented it.

A lot of riders have been caught by indirect evidence, doping products in relative's cars, doping product in the trash, witnesses, doping product found at their home...

Once again you are a fool if you think he is clean. Don't get me wrong I do believe that probably the first 30 riders of the TDF of the last 10 - 15 years took product. Look at the first 10 riders of the years when Lance won, 90% have been involved in doping or caught by tests. Even if the UCI and TDF decide to confirm USADA decision, it would be impossible for them to give the win to another rider in a consistent way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Does the USADA even have the authority to do anything?

They are a US nonprofit that is not officially sanctioned by a US authority.

TDF is a French thing. This just doesn't seem right.

[leemajors]

Does the USADA even have the authority to do anything?

They are a US nonprofit that is not officially sanctioned by a US authority.

TDF is a French thing. This just doesn't seem right.

I read they brought the pressure onto TDF for the Landis scandal and stripping of les, so they may here as well. But you're right they have no power of their own to strip a TDF le

[Texas_Ranger]

lol cycling. This sport is just stupid cause everyone is on doping.

and it's just stupid that they can take all of his medals just cause some morons think he was on ''drugs'', with no real evidence.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I read they brought the pressure onto TDF for the Landis scandal and stripping of les, so they may here as well. But you're right they have no power of their own to strip a TDF le

So then they are a lobbying group.

Lovely.

[redzero]

With all the cheating that was going on, I'm not sure how anyone could say he wasn't competing on a level playing field. He was killing people out there, and it was because he was better than everyone.

To those who say it wasn't "fair",and that his les should be stripped, that'd be like removing Barry Bond's HR records because it wasn't fair to McGwire and Sosa.

Pretty much. It's a sham.

[Slomo]

It is true that mountain stages have been lightened a lot in the last TDF and while it is more boring I think it is a good action to limit the doping. I mean this compe ion is crazy hard almost inhuman. To try to limit the doping they have to decrease the difficulty at some point.

Cheating in cycling especially TDF is much more complicated than in other sport. Cycling has been the scapegoat of the professional sport during a lot of years also because of the efforts to fight the doping, controls are still not 100% efficient but the police is involved and is investigating the docs, the family, the witnesses... Remember the Rumsas story ? they found in his car's wife big quan ies of doping products. It's easier to attack cycling than football, the financial stakes are not at all the same. In football one would be very naive to think this sport is clean creatin to explain Zidane's muscular development.

Agree completely - especially first paragraph.

[symple19]

Well, now that this is over, hopefully both Lance Armstrong and the ty, irrelevant sport he was the face of for so long will fade back away into obscurity... where they belong

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Let me get this straight, people here think Lance shouldn't lose his les because everyone else was doing it as well, and Lance was better all things considered?

The reason why Lance SHOULD lose his les isn't that he really wasn't better than the compe ion. He truly must have been tbh. The legitimate reason is that he cheated, and that in and of itself is enough, I don't give a if everyone and the pope was doing it as well.

That sort of bull rationalization is what corruption in politics for example, thrives on. "Oh I know the dude stole millions, but everyone does it, so why single him out?"

You single him out TO START WITH and then you go after every single cheating piece of that did it as well. Now, you can complain that they aren't doing that, and that would be fine. What you can't do, is that they are starting with Lance simply because he's some kind of icon in the sport.

To put it simply, if they can prove that he cheated (which I think they must be able to or they wouldn't go to all this trouble) then HIM!. Anyone that doesn't agree with that has a pretty ed up set of values let me tell you.

[symple19]

^That's a solid take

[Brazil]

Globally TDF and UCI were waiting USADA and Lance decision, in function of that they will decide to strip Armstrong of his les but USADA has no authority to force TDF and UCI decision

[Brazil]

Let me get this straight, people here think Lance shouldn't lose his les because everyone else was doing it as well, and Lance was better all things considered?

The reason why Lance SHOULD lose his les isn't that he really wasn't better than the compe ion. He truly must have been tbh. The legitimate reason is that he cheated, and that in and of itself is enough, I don't give a if everyone and the pope was doing it as well.

That sort of bull rationalization is what corruption in politics for example, thrives on. "Oh I know the dude stole millions, but everyone does it, so why single him out?"

You single him out TO START WITH and then you go after every single cheating piece of that did it as well. Now, you can complain that they aren't doing that, and that would be fine. What you can't do, is that they are starting with Lance simply because he's some kind of icon in the sport.

To put it simply, if they can prove that he cheated (which I think they must be able to or they wouldn't go to all this trouble) then HIM!. Anyone that doesn't agree with that has a pretty ed up set of values let me tell you.

[Reck]

If they start taking les away, then they should go full on and start taking the les of people who took PEDs.

I am pretty damn sure they wont have a legitimate winner from this decade, they will probably have to go into the 70s to find someone who actually won a le 100% clean.

Who are they kidding? The Sport itself is not clean.

At this point its not even about Armstrong and doping, its about USADA trying to show they have power, specially when they dont have any to begin with.

[Slomo]

...

To put it simply, if they can prove that he cheated (which I think they must be able to or they wouldn't go to all this trouble) then HIM!. Anyone that doesn't agree with that has a pretty ed up set of values let me tell you.

There are several points in this thread:

- The French investigated the out of Lance and if they could have they would have stripped him of the les long ago. They even prosecuted some of the other big names in the process (they were convinced they would get Lance eventually).

- It doesn't change the fact that the sport as a whole was dirty and that it has been changing. Lance was a catalyst for these changes (an inadvertent one).

- Nobody is defending him - just pointing out the hypocrisy of singling him out for something that was common practice at the time.

- And personally I love the irony how Europeans were called nationalist and even racist for going after Lance. Now he is getting screwed by his own and on shaky evidence none the less (testimony of people who have a stake in the outcome).

And anybody who thinks cycling is not a difficult sport, should try it. I personally suggest to start with something easy: a downhill track in a MTB Park - I mean it's downhill all the way, how difficult can it be?

And finally I still don't like Armstrong (never have).

[Brazil]

lol cycling. This sport is just stupid cause everyone is on doping.

absolutely because we know MLB, NFL, football... are clean and nobody is on doping

[The Gemini Method]

at a sport that makes the WWE look clean