List some examples.
Since your very knowledgeable about this topic please take a minute and satisfy my curiosity, how come diehard surfers who live on the beach everyday don't have web feet by now?
Tribes in Africa that have lived 1000s of years and 100s of miles from water should by now have humps on they're backs like a camel to store water.
If Tuna are always being eaten by Whales how come they haven't grown any defense mechanisms on they're bodies?
How come people who live in Antarctica and other cold regions of the earth for 1000s of years haven't developed fur on they're bodies?
If your naive enough to support evolution at least do a little research on it
Good question! Another thing... why haven't humans evolved to fly for a better motive for transportation? Why haven't humans evolved away from lungs that need oxygen so we can live on other planets?
All the things you listed... have no problem with survival. It's funny that you moronically quoted my emphasis on evolution's basic catalyst being the need for adaptation, and then go and list things that are successful at LIVING and REPRODUCING.
Well, at least we can go to Mars and explore it. lol
If what you say is true then there is no such thing as "endangered" species since the animals can just evolve to survive. By your theory shouldn't we have millions of dodo birds still around?
Like I said do a little research before you try to debate with someone who has.
We know just how little research you've done
And I have yet to lost a debate about the age of the Earth or Evolution.
Why is that and what does that say about you and the others?
What tribes in Africa have lived 1000s of years 100s of miles away from water?
Water is 100 Miles Away
Food & Water
Food & Water - Zakat Foundation of America | Zakat Calculator | Muslim Charity | Muslim Aid
On any morning in Africa, one can find people walking with empty vessels towards the closest sources of water, in order to obtain water for drinking and cooking. They may arrive after a few hours to the lake and start to fill their containers with dirty water. At the moment, this is their best option for obtaining water.
After filling containers, they head back home to share this precious resource with their families, who are waiting patiently for hours on end. This insight is just a preview of what a normal day looks like for a poor person living in Africa; when they must walk miles in order to reach a water source.
Walking many miles to find water is just one obstacle for the average person living in Africa. It could be that the water they do find is not good for them, and may expose them to waterborne illnesses. Most of the surface water that people in Africa use contains harmful bacteria. This sad fact contributes to the reality that causes diarrhoea diseases in children. Diarrhoea diseases impact is greater than the combined impact of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria.
Food & Water - Zakat Foundation of America | Zakat Calculator | Muslim Charity | Muslim Aid
By simply improving water sanitation and drinking-water quality in Africa, the suffering from these diseases could be reduced by nearly 90%. (UN)
To date, more than 100,000 people in Africa have been given access to clean water by using wells built by Zakat Foundation donors. Zakat Foundation continues digging wells in areas of water scarcity throughout Africa in order to provide drinkable water and prevent water related diseases. You can change the lives of thousands of people in Africa by digging a well and allowing them to have access to clean water.
Donate to dig a well in Africa and save thousands!
The gargantuan disconnect here is that "origins" science has nothing to do with modern technology, or solving technological problems... "we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems" Nye says... Well I'm an engineer, I solve all sorts of real world problems and can troubleshoot with the best of the them (having to employ calculus, physics, thermodynamics, chemistry among other disciplines)... I need not believe that I share genetic ancestry with apes to do so... My belief in a Creator doesn't impact in any way, form or fashion how I go about solving said problems, nor does it limit my proficiencies... I work with observable, repeatable (let me repeat that one for emphasis), and measureble scientific data (you know, the three immutable pillars that the scientific method is built upon). The origins event cannot be repeated without incurring interference bias from those attempting such experiments. Any "best guess" experiment is merely that... a "guess", because no one can verifiably say that "x" or "y" process was the defacto process by which life began... No human! I repeat, no human was there to observe said event, much less measure and quantify it.
If people were really honest about it, they would acknowledge that the concept of "origins" falls outside of the realm of the true scientific method... As such, the origin of life is not quantifiable by our science, falling within the realm of speculation (no matter how fancy or complex that speculative "theory" has become)... Of course, Nye's accusation could be redirected at those with his line of thinking considering he's not being consistent with the criteria required by the scientific process. Not that they'd ever accept that either. They're so busy trying to convince others that belief in a higher power is holding humankind back... of course as they do this they want folks to ignore the history of the scientific movement, to ignore that the Enlightenment was sparked by men of faith (reference other posts below)... Geez... this topic has been discussed ad infinitum...
Well then go on... don't stop there.
Nicolaus Copernicus - just because he was persecuted by the Vatican does not mean he wasn't a believer. He was a devout man of faith.
Johannes Kepler - One of the Fathers of Modern Astronomy
Louis Pasteur - Father of Microbiology
Gregor Mendel - Father of Modern Genetics
Michael Faraday - Distinguished Physicist
Blaise Pascal - Distinguished Mathematician
Sir Isaac Newton - Father of Calculus and Physics (without him the modern scientific era doesn't unfold)
Carolus Linnaeus - Father of Taxonomy
Leonhard Euler - Distinguished Mathematician and Physicist
Niels Bohr – The Atom, need I say more...
John Dalton – Distinguished Chemist
James Clerk Maxwell - Father of Electromagnetism
William Thomson "Lord" Kelvin - Father of Thermodynamics - Distinguished Physicist
Linus Pauling – Revolutionized the World of Chemistry
Werner Heisenberg – Father of Quantum Theory
Max Planck - Distinguished Physicist – Co-father of Quantum Theory
Enrico Fermi - Distinguished Physicist
John Ambrose Fleming - Distinguished Mathematician and Physicist
J. Robert Oppenheimer – Distinguished Physicist
Alexander Fleming – Discovery of Penicillin
Sir Robert Boyd - Distinguished Astrophysicist
Albert Einstein - Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." Much like Isaac Newton (more on him below), this belief actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed… My favorite quote of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
I think that what really bothers many of you is having to admit that ‘science’ and what we now know as the ‘scientific process’ were largely invented by ‘religious’ people (and especially Christians)… Most branches of science were developed by Christians, even if schoolbooks abstain from mentioning such details… Furthermore, you all seem to strongly gravitate away from the idea that scientists can in fact be believers (this thread wreaks of it). But you all wouldn’t have such a hard time reconciling the two positions if you would only accept the fact that numerous professors and scientific leaders worldwide today are Christians... Either way, these facts make the statements that claim that "science and Christianity are enemies" as being absolutely false and extremely unfair distortions of history and of the present.
It is also a fact that Christian scientists often publish in respected journals, but if they write about ‘creation’ or something ‘religious,’ even if it’s rigorously testable scientifically, it’s almost always censored and banned from publication just like those who think of alternative theories to the Big Bang (even if not Christian) are censored and usually not allowed much freedom to publish. We never think of our free press being censored, but it is in several areas and especially in reference to the relationship between science and faith...
Unfortunately, some Christians have reacted to this ridicule with ridicule of their own. This has just hardened each camp in its position and greatly hindered progress and true scientific knowledge. I am trying hard to avoid this because I know and have met many very sincere atheists and evolutionists who want to understand what is true and accurate and follow it. There are many atheists and evolutionists who have contributed important things to science and they are dedicated and want to do good things for human beings. But, they have serious philosophical questions that make belief in God difficult for them and this should be respected and everyone should be allowed the freedom to theorize and try to prove their theories. So, I have much respect for those who search for truth and really try to be objective even if that means giving up a worldview or theory that they have held for a long time. This deserves much respect.
That said, it cannot help the truth to intentionally distort history and posit the idea that Christians are intellectually inferior, simply because of their Christian beliefs...
He most definitely was not... FAIL. Or are you trying to make a Bill Maher-like argument here? Maher recently suggested that Stalin established a “state religion” while building his case against ‘religion’ only to conveniently lambast Christians for it? Talk about blinders… and revisionism… Stalin pushed one of the most devastating atheistic movements in the history of mankind. And as I stated in another thread, more than 40 million people lost their lives in opposition.
Except that you are conveniently minimizing who Newton was and what he represented… Isaac Newton is arguably one of the 10 most influential people of all time.
As an aside, in today’s age, scientists who openly embrace faith are blackballed by academic publishers… For that reason alone, I will always doubt the validity of such surveys/studies… if you can even call them that… these surveys do nothing more than propagate the notion that belief in GOD is tantamount to idiocy. Ironically these ‘studies’ do a great disservice to the virtues of scientific process they are trying to endorse…
So then you are saying he wasn’t a believer? Either he was or he wasn’t… clearly his writings show that he was. He just happened to take the position that many other great Deists, including Einstein, chose to follow. They believed in GOD regardless.
And using this as an argument against the supposed lack of intelligence in believers is a reach… and you know it.
now attack ad infinitum... you've never been one to concede on anything, much less admit to erring.
It's a 'fair' take... but, I think you among others here missed the point.Look, all the people arguing that some smart people believe in God... so what? What does that have to do with the OP? I don't think the point was that NO smart person believes. Just that, on average, non-believers have higher IQs than believers.
No one's saying it's a hard line and there are no outliers.
Such studies are biased from the get-go - a complete slap-in-the-face to the scientific process they are supposedly trying to uphold (have you seen their methods, their sample pools? laughable really). Its assertions are without merit. Yet, you all have gleefully taken them to heart as if they helped justify the lack of belief amongst those here.
The scientific movement was largely born out of people who wished to understand the world around them... because they inherently understood that we were gifted the capacity to reason and comprehend the 'workings' of our world and our place in it (unlike the other creatures around us)... more specifically, they understood their unique place among 'creation'. Hasn't anyone here ever questioned the philosophical implications of being situated in the one zone in the galaxy that allows us to 'safely' study the universe to begin with? Most other zones in our galaxy are a haven for biodestructive cosmic forces, and aren't as conducive to providing the stability required for life to flourish, much less for that life to 'develop' the cognitive ability to question their place in the universe and the means to understand it.
Anyways, it's disingenous to continually distort history to the point where you all fail to admit that Believers, by and large, propelled the scientific movement. All those people I listed (out of a much larger list) revolutionized their fields and helped usher in the modern technological era. It's also rather disingenous to presume that they would be athiests in today's world...
Ask yourself this question... Why wasn't the scientific movement born out of other world philosophies (Islam, Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or even Atheism since you all tout its virtues so much)??? NOW, I'm not saying that their adherents lacked the intellectual capacity to do so... simply that they weren't gifted with the perspective to put it together, or to seek out Truth. Nowadays everyone shares in the benefit of all past contributions, and embraces the scientific process... but many (as exemplified in this thread) believe it to be a product of secularism, and the pre-requisite rejection of faith. Nothing can be further from the truth...
If some of the brightest minds ever have come to the realization that our universe was created, how is it you all can nonchalantly ignore the significance of their realization? Sure, go ahead and think for yourselves... ultimately matters of faith are entirely up to you all... but don't for a second believe you completely grasp the nuances of the physical laws that govern our universe, or the implications of the subatomic world which has unfolded before us... If you all think that being 'smart' is to accept only that which can be seen and measured then IMO you all aren't very smart at all. As I've said many times before... Science isn't the catch-all, be-all, end-all tool you all wish it to be... it's only a tool, not a world view.
As an aside, Atheism these days is becoming rather religious... except that many of its adherents can't even see, much less admit to this irony...
Oh lawdy, another idiot creationist is in our midst.
Oh lawdy, another wannabee TRoll nat buzzing around topics entering them just to try and insult posters with outdated comments since you really don't have any of the proper education it takes to even add to the original topic you have no choice.
Real intelligent reply.
Last edited by mouse; 08-29-2012 at 09:05 PM.
It doesn't take any education to copy/paste from creationist websites like you do, Mark.
Mouse, check your PM's.
Evolution depends on a successful, beneficial mutation. Things don't change just because you will them to change. Endangered species have been successful up to a point; now their brand of living is outdated in relation to the variables affecting them or their habitat.
So where's the part about them living for 1000s of years 100s of miles away from water? The fact they live far away from water in modern times has nothing to do with what you original said.Water is 100 Miles Away
Food & Water
Food & Water - Zakat Foundation of America | Zakat Calculator | Muslim Charity | Muslim Aid
On any morning in Africa, one can find people walking with empty vessels towards the closest sources of water, in order to obtain water for drinking and cooking. They may arrive after a few hours to the lake and start to fill their containers with dirty water. At the moment, this is their best option for obtaining water.
After filling containers, they head back home to share this precious resource with their families, who are waiting patiently for hours on end. This insight is just a preview of what a normal day looks like for a poor person living in Africa; when they must walk miles in order to reach a water source.
Walking many miles to find water is just one obstacle for the average person living in Africa. It could be that the water they do find is not good for them, and may expose them to waterborne illnesses. Most of the surface water that people in Africa use contains harmful bacteria. This sad fact contributes to the reality that causes diarrhoea diseases in children. Diarrhoea diseases impact is greater than the combined impact of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria.
Food & Water - Zakat Foundation of America | Zakat Calculator | Muslim Charity | Muslim Aid
By simply improving water sanitation and drinking-water quality in Africa, the suffering from these diseases could be reduced by nearly 90%. (UN)
To date, more than 100,000 people in Africa have been given access to clean water by using wells built by Zakat Foundation donors. Zakat Foundation continues digging wells in areas of water scarcity throughout Africa in order to provide drinkable water and prevent water related diseases. You can change the lives of thousands of people in Africa by digging a well and allowing them to have access to clean water.
Donate to dig a well in Africa and save thousands!
So you wannabee Darwin lovers get to Pic and choose when Evolution works and when it doesn't?
This may be the easiest debate yet.
I really, really hope that all these creationist heads die off within my lifetime.
Things aren't picked. They're observed and recorded.
Thank you Jesus
I'm curious of what your stance is and why you're so against evolution. You haven't given an ounce of anything worth rebutting. I chose to humor you anyways. Give me a reason to carry on with this conversation. I won't if there's nothing to gain.
Why can't a human believe in both creation and evolution? Is it possible that a person could think that a higher being created Earth and life and that organisms have in a way evolved over time?
I miss watching Bill Bye the science guy when I was younger! It was a great show!
Actually, one of the possible mechanisms of evolution, genetic drift, is population allele frequency changes due to random chance. Natural selection and the handful of other mechanisms aren't random, however.
Because people use these opinions to legislate their morals upon others. Its not just an opinion.
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