Debates: Obama vs Romney, Round 1

[Th'Pusher]

This thread went for us presidential debate to Argentinian politics

[LnGrrrR]

what the are you talking about?

Carlos 2nd term was terrible (and IMO undid anything good he did before), but during his 1st term, there was actual growth an investment. As far as corruption goes, I haven't noticed much change. Same cronies handing their family cozy government jobs, same government programs buying up votes, any governor that doesn't align with the federal government gets their funding cut, any businessman speaking against the government gets a visit from the AFIP, high profile government employees growing their fortunes 50-fold on a short time... the usual banana republic stuff.

Wait, are you still talking about Argentina or the US?

[ElNono]

Wait, are you still talking about Argentina or the US?

Right?

It's much more facist over there though... like they're not even trying to hide it. Not only that, their equivalent to "PBS" runs pro-goverment political ads all the time.

[Big P]

It's never ok when boutons does it too. But if you feel like you need to be another boutons/Yoni..... well... go ahead, I guess...

You didn't call boutons post spam, but when I put up the facts, all of a sudden I'm "spamming" and you feel the need to let me know...ya'll are so easy to spot....and I don't need to be another boutons, it's a two way street...he's gonna post his about Romney and I'll post about obungle if no one else is going to dispute him. Let the liberal butt-hurt flow.

[ElNono]

You didn't call boutons post spam, but when I put up the facts, all of a sudden I'm "spamming" and you feel the need to let me know..

I called out boutons/Yoni spam at various times. I don't do it everytime they post otherwise I would be spamming myself.

Listen, there's nothing I can do to stop you or boutons or Yoni from pasting walls of text followed by walls of more text. But I sure will let you know how I feel about it. Feel free to ignore it.

It has everything to do with having LESS boutons, tbh

ya'll are so easy to spot....and I don't need to be another boutons, it's a two way street...he's gonna post his about Romney and I'll post about obungle if no one else is going to dispute him. Let the liberal butt-hurt flow.

I didn't even disagree with you or your post.

AFAIK, other than you and boutons, nobody really reads boutons posts. If you want to go that route too, feel free.

[ploto]

I thought that Bill Maher made an interesting point tonight. He said that during the debate, there was the one real instance where Obama kind of called Romney on his bull . What happened -- that was the point on the little scale with the focus group where Obama got his lowest rating of the entire night. So is there a bias that the white guy is seen as aggressive while Oabma would be seen as an angry black man? People asked why he did not do this more, but maybe that is the answer right there.

[boutons_deux]

Americans were suckered, conned, by Gecko's aggressive, strong statement of his 30 LIES. He's a ing crooked, corrupt salesmen selling a ty product, and will tell any lie to close the deal.

[ploto]

... will tell any lie to close the deal.

The thing is that it seemed to work, so now he is using it as his main strategy.

[boutons_deux]

Romney Health Care Debate Claim Gets Corrected By His Own Staff

Independent fact checkers have not been particularly kind to Mitt Romney since Wednesday's first presidential debate in Denver. But one of the candidate's claims turned out to be so far off the mark that he had to be corrected by his own aides — a fact not unnoticed by the Obama campaign.

Romney's claim was this, part of what turned out to be a highly detailed discussion of health care: "No. 1, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan."

By pre-existing conditions, Romney was talking about the ability for people who already have medical problems — diabetes, for example, or even things like allergies — to buy health insurance. Starting in 2014, the federal Affordable Care Act says insurance companies can no longer reject people with bad health histories — nor can they charge them more.

That's already true in Massachusetts under the law Romney signed as governor. But Romney's current plan for the nation, should he be elected president, wouldn't necessarily guarantee that same protection.
"Actually, governor, that isn't what your plan does," President Obama told Romney at the debate Wednesday. "What your plan does is to duplicate what's already the law."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...f?sc=17&f=1001

and Gecko/Ryan health plan leaves 70M+ moochers without health insurance.

[djohn2oo8]

The thing is that it seemed to work, so now he is using it as his main strategy.

The jobs report absolutely neutered ol Williard's attacks/policy stance.

[boutons_deux]

Gecko's staff said Gecko lied about pre-existing conditions, and now Gingrich says Gecko lied about his tax plan.

\

Gingrich acknowledged the clear inconsistency, saying “I think it’s clear he changed.” He described the change as “good politics.”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...uring-debates/

YES! Lying and doing a bait-and-switch is good (standard Repug) politics. Gecko for President (of the 1%)!

Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...in-38-minutes/

I see nobody is denying Gecko lied, but pushing the false equivalence the Barry also lied.

and Gecko's dishonest move to center-right is blatantly at odds with what the extremists Ryan and Repugs have been pushing hard for in Congress.

Gecko as Pres would certainly be extremist, too, and backed by JINO SCOTUS.

[boutons_deux]

GOP Strategist Says Romney Is Withholding Details Of His Tax Plan To Avoid Criticism

Here is the problem. You guys won’t give him any credit for closing loopholes, because like you guys, he won’t name the loopholes. Why? Because you’ll attack him for doing it. You attack him for not giving you a little target… and then you attack him when you get the target.

Murphy’s argument is that if Romney is transparent with the American people about what tax loopholes he would close to offset the roughly $5 trillion such a 20 percent tax cut would cost — those proposals might be subject to scrutiny and criticism.


What sort of “loopholes” might Romney include? Murphy suggested perhaps it might include reductions in how much families with mortgages can deduct their interest payments from their taxes.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/20...oid-criticism/

Gecko is a serial LIAR, and felony tax evader, the ideal candidate for the 1%.

[boutons_deux]

George H.W. Bush Press Secretary in 1984: Lying During Debates Is a Republican Strategy

"You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,'' observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters then do ent that a candidate spoke untruthfully, ''so what?''

''Maybe 200 people read it or 2,000 or 20,000,'' he said.

2 Approaches to a Candidate's Image: Showing the Message or Speaking It

November 1, 1984

By Fay S. Joyce

LOUISVILLE, Ky., Oct. 31

'Who do you believe,'' Groucho Marx once asked, ''me or your own eyes?''

When Walter F. Mondale quoted that line in his second debate with Ronald Reagan, he went to the heart of the difference between his campaign and Mr. Reagan's. The President is counting on the conviction that people do believe their own eyes, relying in large measure on carefully staged and persuasive pictures to tell his story. Mr. Mondale relies more on the strength of his words.

And as they present their cases to the American public, they are not merely arguing in two different ways. They are also offering different versions of reality: the United States as a country with serious problems that must be tended to, or one that is essentially well off. ''It's either the Land of Oz,'' said one analyst, ''or Kansas.''

Mr. Reagan has largely bypassed the big-city newspapers by making extensive use of hundreds of local newspapers and television stations.

Small Controlled Gestures

And in him the Republicans have a candidate who has mastered the small controlled gestures of television: the of the eyebrow, the turn of the head, the soft voice that arrests and hold the attention of the viewer and establishes a sense of intimacy.

In their view, by using television so well Mr. Reagan is simply communicating clearly and effectively his personality and his message of optimism, patriotism and approval of the current economic prosperity for those who are experiencing it.

The Republicans are unabashed in their discussion of their ability to use the television medium.

''You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,'' observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters then do ent that a candidate spoke untruthfully, ''so what?''

''Maybe 200 people read it or 2,000 or 20,000,'' he said.

''They know a majority of Americans don't agree with them on a lot of stuff,'' he added. ''People overwhelmingly don't agree with their platform. But rather than fight it out on detail, they would rather sketch it out in broad themes and tie Reagan to the flag.''

James David Barber of Duke University, an authority on the Presidency, is one of those who believes the candidates are offering different versions of reality to the public.

And the press, he says, by analyzing debates and campaign appearances in terms of style and political gain rather than on substance, has tutored the public to believe that what the candidates say, and finding out what is true, is not important.

''We've become a nation of theater critics,'' lamented ''We have not succeeded in establishing even an elementary base to discuss the facts. I find that appalling.''



http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mu...lican-strategy

[TeyshaBlue]

lolz

Pew: Romney leads Obama among likely voters
http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpoli...ebate/1621309/

[ElNono]

lolz

Pew: Romney leads Obama among likely voters
http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpoli...ebate/1621309/

That's interesting. Not even Rasmussen has him that high.

[ploto]

Rasmussen now has them tied.

[ploto]

The Pew poll has a different finding than Gallup's daily tracking poll. In a seven-day rolling average Oct. 1-7, Obama led Romney among registered voters, 49% to 45%, according to Gallup.

Gallup, however, found that Romney pulled even with Obama in two days of surveys taken Thursday and Friday after the debate. Obama apparently did better over the weekend after the jobless rate for September went below 8%, as reported on Friday.

[TeyshaBlue]

Better bump from the debate than was anticipated I guess

[ElNono]

Better bump from the debate than was anticipated I guess

Probably a bounce. Those abound during the debates. I was reading a while ago that the largest swing historically after debates was 4 points. Normally they don't affect the race that much.

[Nbadan]

Now polls are OK?

[Nbadan]

From Nate Silver today

How much difference did the Pew poll make? We had Romney win % rising to 24.4% from 21.6% today. Without Pew, he'd have made no gain at all.


So the Pew poll really is a huge data point for Romney. But his polling today was pretty mediocre without it

[Nbadan]

According to numbers reported by Pew, Democrats fell from 37 percent in the September poll to 32 percent in October while Republicans rose from 28 to 33 percent among registered voters. With such numbers and high support for the nominee among partisans, it's no surprise that Romney leads Obama. With the same partisan breakdown in October as in September, Obama would still be leading, even among likely voters.

So what's behind the Republican surge in party identification? As far as I can tell, the September-October shift is the largest recorded by the Pew trend line. But is it a real surge? If so, Republicans would have scored a partisan realignment of sorts, all in the wake of a terrific debate performance. That seems far-fetched. More likely, the sample for the October poll just ended up with more Republicans and fewer Democrats than before. ..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/helmut...ml?utm_hp_ref=

[Wild Cobra]

That's interesting. Not even Rasmussen has him that high.

Does Rasmussen use the "likely voter" sample too?

[ElNono]

Does Rasmussen use the "likely voter" sample too?

yep...

Daily tracking results are collected via telephone surveys of 500 likely voters per night and reported on a three-day rolling average basis.

[Wild Cobra]

Just asking. I haven't really cared what's happening.