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  1. #51
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is that the claim that state's having full authority to decide whether to allow cross-state sales would be irrelevant in the face of a federal law requiring them to allow such sales.

  2. #52
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    What I'm saying is that the claim that state's having full authority to decide whether to allow cross-state sales would be irrelevant in the face of a federal law requiring them to allow such sales.
    ok, nothing but an obvious hypothetical

    the Repug point that "insurance across state lines" is restricted, horribly "regulated", when 6 states have OKed it, and not one insurance company has responded. So the Repug talking point is disproven, a lie.
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 10-08-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  3. #53
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    lol 6 states
    Is there a problem with cross-state selling other than it being a repug talking point?

  4. #54
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    lol 6 states
    Is there a problem with cross-state selling other than it being a repug talking point?
    If the Repugs are for it, then the companies would gain, and clients would be screwed. Apart from that cer ude, it's just non-stop Repug anti-govt bull .

  5. #55
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    How would companies gain? Why would clients be screwed?

    Seems to me like its a good idea.

  6. #56
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is that the claim that state's having full authority to decide whether to allow cross-state sales would be irrelevant in the face of a federal law requiring them to allow such sales.
    That is correct.

    This is a case where almost all statutory authority for insurance regulation resides with the states. Any change to that would have a LOT of state governments very upset.

    Call it a "truce" between layers of government.

  7. #57
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    you're saying insurance companies are forbidden by FEDERAL LAW from selling across state lines, so states cannot allow it? If so, which Federal law is that?
    They aren't. State law governs in all cases of who sells what insurance and how within any given state, as the article in the OP notes.

  8. #58
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    That is correct.

    This is a case where almost all statutory authority for insurance regulation resides with the states. Any change to that would have a LOT of state governments very upset.

    Call it a "truce" between layers of government.
    The irony of a so-called republican calling on the federal government to regulate the states is duly noted btw

  9. #59
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    as well as the fact that, when left to their own devices, the states balk and prevent a free market from coming about

  10. #60
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Okay...

    Tort reform was supposed to influence Medical Malpractice premiums (haven't seen whether it did or not, but I'd bet the best reaction would have been to just slow down increases).

    That means for it to actually affect health insurance policies, you'd need the MedMal insururs (a completely different set, no one does both medmal and health policies) to lower their premiums, then doctors to lower their prices (not likely as they'd just reinvest the savings somewhere else), and then health insurors could lower their premiums (again, more likely just to slow the rate of increase).

    There's too many steps for one to make a direct connection there.

    Texas also has one of the highest rates of medical liability cases that get filed.

    Personally, I think limiting punitive damages in medical liability cases (except where permanent disability or death is involved) to a ratio of actual damages is a good thing, because it's FAIR.
    Tort reform has brought down malpractice insurance premiums in Texas.

    What it has not done, is limit the increases in the costs of health care. The reason for this is that malpractice premiums for most specialties, aren't all that significant.

    "Texas also has one of the highest rates of medical liability cases that get filed."

    Link?

  11. #61
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    as well as the fact that, when left to their own devices, the states balk and prevent a free market from coming about
    Texas has a ueber conservative governor, and an ueber conservative Republican super majority in its legislature. If it were a priority, it would have happened.

    That private insurers are somehow more efficient at providing health insurance than governments is a myth, in my opinion.

    I have yet to see anyone show that (cost+profits) < (cost+government inefficiency)

    Insurance is risk pooling.

    Hordes of smaller insurers = exceedingly inefficient + poor risk pooling

    More risks pooled = more predictability

    The only thing that a private insurer has over governmental insurer is returns from invested reserves to offset some amount of premiums, which government programs doesn't do. These days though, the returns on the kinds of investments insurance companies are allowed to make is low, and will continue to be low for the forseeable future.

  12. #62
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Tort reform has brought down malpractice insurance premiums in Texas.

    What it has not done, is limit the increases in the costs of health care. The reason for this is that malpractice premiums for most specialties, aren't all that significant.

    "Texas also has one of the highest rates of medical liability cases that get filed."

    Link?
    I haven't found much per capita, or by a rate. But I did find this...http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=436&cat=8

    Texas is #5 in paid claims for 2011. Not exactly earthshaking numbers either. New York has about 3x as many and in the overall scheme of things, a pretty insignificant number.

  13. #63
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How would companies gain? Why would clients be screwed?

    Seems to me like its a good idea.
    Information asymmetry.

    Shopping for health insurance is mind-numbingly complex, and the market is opaque to most people.

    In such an environment, advantage naturally accrues to the negotiating side with the best information. That isn't your average joe, who can barely sift through a cell phone contract, let alone the byzantine complexity of a health insurance policy. , I'm an insurance expert, and I have problems figuring out my health plan sometimes.

    Oddly enough though, I have access to some first-hand data about medmal insurance in Texas. I will talk to the actuary I am working with and get the skinny.

  14. #64
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Information asymmetry.

    Shopping for health insurance is mind-numbingly complex, and the market is opaque to most people.

    In such an environment, advantage naturally accrues to the negotiating side with the best information. That isn't your average joe, who can barely sift through a cell phone contract, let alone the byzantine complexity of a health insurance policy. , I'm an insurance expert, and I have problems figuring out my health plan sometimes.

    Oddly enough though, I have access to some first-hand data about medmal insurance in Texas. I will talk to the actuary I am working with and get the skinny.
    That all may well be true (I have some issues with it, namely, a large amount of employers shop and purchase policies using insurance specialists, but whatevs), I still don't see how increasing the number of insurance companies competing within any given state increases a policy's complexity. There's a gap in between an increase in providers and an increase in a policy's complexity.

  15. #65
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I haven't found much per capita, or by a rate. But I did find this...http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=436&cat=8

    Texas is #5 in paid claims for 2011. Not exactly earthshaking numbers either. New York has about 3x as many and in the overall scheme of things, a pretty insignificant number.
    (downloads state populations to excel, uses your link for the paid claims, sorts, filters, does a quick claims/population formula)

    Sorted by ratio, smallest to largest. Texas is #11 on a per capita basis.

    Minnesota 0.000916768%
    Alabama 0.000978608%
    Wisconsin 0.000980432%
    Hawaii 0.001382009%
    Alaska 0.001383666%
    North Carolina 0.001470527%
    Wyoming 0.001584066%
    North Dakota 0.001608347%
    Iowa 0.001698065%
    Idaho 0.001703486%
    Texas 0.001733225%
    Ohio 0.001827639%
    Virginia 0.001914383%
    Colorado 0.001954358%
    Arkansas 0.001974146%
    Washington 0.001976563%
    Oregon 0.002066191%
    Georgia 0.002078407%
    Delaware 0.002094506%
    Vermont 0.002234883%
    South Dakota 0.002305596%
    Nevada 0.002350071%
    California 0.002358596%
    Maine 0.002409297%
    South Carolina 0.002436298%
    Nebraska 0.002442147%
    Illinois 0.002447694%
    Mississippi 0.002484462%
    Kentucky 0.002517533%
    Tennessee 0.002561158%
    Indiana 0.002562559%
    Missouri 0.002645288%
    Arizona 0.002792131%
    Massachusetts 0.003218199%
    Michigan 0.003310994%
    Oklahoma 0.003323216%
    Connecticut 0.003658493%
    Utah 0.003691580%
    New Hampshire 0.003793068%
    Florida 0.003977428%
    New Mexico 0.004034148%
    Maryland 0.004272266%
    Rhode Island 0.004280407%
    Kansas 0.004423179%
    Montana 0.004608300%
    New Jersey 0.004863309%
    Pennsylvania 0.006019045%
    Louisiana 0.006710623%
    New York 0.007084439%
    West Virginia 0.008461951%

  16. #66
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That all may well be true (I have some issues with it, namely, a large amount of employers shop and purchase policies using insurance specialists, but whatevs), I still don't see how increasing the number of insurance companies competing within any given state increases a policy's complexity. There's a gap in between an increase in providers and an increase in a policy's complexity.
    It does not increase a policy's complexity. It simply increases the amounts of options available. Which is good for an efficient market. (economic "efficient", meaning information is equally known to all concerned)

    The problem is that health insurance by its complexity does not lend itself to "efficient" markets. Individuals rarely have the desire and/or capacity to do enough research to be able to adequately evaluate the products they are offered. (edit) The insurance company, however, does, and has every motivation to maximize profits This is not always compatible with inexpensive coverage, to put it mildly.(/edit)

    What complexity does, is drive up costs, by removing the negative feedback of free markets that forces companies to offer products cheaply.

    Not all free markets are created equal.

  17. #67
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That all may well be true (I have some issues with it, namely, a large amount of employers shop and purchase policies using insurance specialists, but whatevs)
    "insurance specialists" = agents, paid commissions by... insurance companies?

    Conflict of interest. Insurance agents have a profit motive to steer people to whatever makes them the most commission, that assumes that they are appointed by more than one type of health insurer. (agents are limited to selling only for companies that have appointed them, if any given company has not appointed any given agent, you will not be able to shop from that insurer if you go to that agent)

    One can get professional actuaries and other sorts though, if you have the resources to do so, which large companies do. Small insurers aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars an hour for such advice, and individuals certainly won't.

  18. #68
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    (downloads state populations to excel, uses your link for the paid claims, sorts, filters, does a quick claims/population formula)

    Sorted by ratio, smallest to largest. Texas is #11 on a per capita basis.

    Minnesota 0.000916768%
    Alabama 0.000978608%
    Wisconsin 0.000980432%
    Hawaii 0.001382009%
    Alaska 0.001383666%
    North Carolina 0.001470527%
    Wyoming 0.001584066%
    North Dakota 0.001608347%
    Iowa 0.001698065%
    Idaho 0.001703486%
    Texas 0.001733225%
    Ohio 0.001827639%
    Virginia 0.001914383%
    Colorado 0.001954358%
    Arkansas 0.001974146%
    Washington 0.001976563%
    Oregon 0.002066191%
    Georgia 0.002078407%
    Delaware 0.002094506%
    Vermont 0.002234883%
    South Dakota 0.002305596%
    Nevada 0.002350071%
    California 0.002358596%
    Maine 0.002409297%
    South Carolina 0.002436298%
    Nebraska 0.002442147%
    Illinois 0.002447694%
    Mississippi 0.002484462%
    Kentucky 0.002517533%
    Tennessee 0.002561158%
    Indiana 0.002562559%
    Missouri 0.002645288%
    Arizona 0.002792131%
    Massachusetts 0.003218199%
    Michigan 0.003310994%
    Oklahoma 0.003323216%
    Connecticut 0.003658493%
    Utah 0.003691580%
    New Hampshire 0.003793068%
    Florida 0.003977428%
    New Mexico 0.004034148%
    Maryland 0.004272266%
    Rhode Island 0.004280407%
    Kansas 0.004423179%
    Montana 0.004608300%
    New Jersey 0.004863309%
    Pennsylvania 0.006019045%
    Louisiana 0.006710623%
    New York 0.007084439%
    West Virginia 0.008461951%

    Nice.

    ...and vanishingly small. Lends credence to the "Tort Reform aint all that" school.

  19. #69
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    If the Repugs are for it, then the companies would gain, and clients would be screwed. Apart from that cer ude, it's just non-stop Repug anti-govt bull .
    Typical ideologue stupidity. It's not like we are talking about Euclidean iden ies here.

  20. #70
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    Texas has a ueber conservative governor, and an ueber conservative Republican super majority in its legislature. If it were a priority, it would have happened.

    That private insurers are somehow more efficient at providing health insurance than governments is a myth, in my opinion.

    I have yet to see anyone show that (cost+profits) < (cost+government inefficiency)

    Insurance is risk pooling.

    Hordes of smaller insurers = exceedingly inefficient + poor risk pooling

    More risks pooled = more predictability

    The only thing that a private insurer has over governmental insurer is returns from invested reserves to offset some amount of premiums, which government programs doesn't do. These days though, the returns on the kinds of investments insurance companies are allowed to make is low, and will continue to be low for the forseeable future.
    Texas also has one of the strictest insurance commissions in the country. It's an interesting juxtaposition. I have said before that one thing that I hope to see is similar oversight of underwriting as you see for P&C gets implemented for health insurers.

  21. #71
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    when was the last the the Repugs did anything for Human-Americans and the environment?

    Repugs' priority is enriching, protecting the 1% and corps, and ing everything and everybody else. Try to prove otherwise, for our entertainment.

  22. #72
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    when was the last the the Repugs did anything for Human-Americans and the environment?

    Repugs' priority is enriching, protecting the 1% and corps, and ing everything and everybody else. Try to prove otherwise, for our entertainment.
    If spurstalk could contract STDs, you'd be AIDS

  23. #73
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    LOL. Uh yeah, us "losers" who would pay for it for your free riding ass.
    It works in Europe

  24. #74
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Texas also has one of the strictest insurance commissions in the country. It's an interesting juxtaposition. I have said before that one thing that I hope to see is similar oversight of underwriting as you see for P&C gets implemented for health insurers.
    How does Texas have one of the strictest insurance commissions? (not sure what that means)

  25. #75
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    "Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
    LOL. Uh yeah, us "losers" who would pay for it for your free riding ass."

    taxpayers pay for the uninsured health care already.

    and "free riding assholes" are those employees who get tax-free benefit (aka income) from employers (tax deductible) health insurance.

    If employees had to pay their full after-tax health insurance (as do self-employed people), we would have had, by popular pressure, a hardcore public insurance option decades ago.




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