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No. I don't see the huge upgrade. Sure the defense is better, but TP is our primary offensive weapon right now. Not sure you can give that up. Plus TP's fit is unquestionably better. Now if you we're talking Chris Paul for TP...
Chemistry is huge, cue Brent Barry. But the Spurs have shown the resilience and depth to withstand injuries to the Big 3 and still get into the playoffs. Wasn't too long ago that Parker was coming off the bench
Rondo is younger, healthier, and the better playmaker, and better defender. No way in the Celtics make this trade but the Spurs would consider it.
No. I don't see the huge upgrade. Sure the defense is better, but TP is our primary offensive weapon right now. Not sure you can give that up. Plus TP's fit is unquestionably better. Now if you we're talking Chris Paul for TP...
Didn't TP start in his rookie season?
IIRC the only playoffs where he really came off the bench was his injury-plagued 2010 campaign.
That's true but when TP decides to be non-aggressive on offense it hurt the team even more.
Can someone pm me a link please, mine (sportslemon) has an add I can't remove in the middle...
thanks!
No, easily.
the yearly trade parker for rondo thread ! good to see the next nba season starting
It will never happens
It's the trade parker for CP3 usually
Does it means that Rondo is now > to CP3 or that Parker is not as good as before?
I would easily pick Rondo before Cp3, TBH.
It's a perfectly fair comparison. Westbrook was frequently spoke of as better than Tony Parker for each of the last two seasons. Parker has outplayed Westbrook in almost EVERY meeting they've had.
Before the series, I was saying watch Westbrook suck at scoring. Why would I think that? He shoots 37% against Parker career. What did he shoot in the series? Shocker, 37%. Parker held his him down and you aren't giving him credit for it because you expected Parker to average 30/10 or something?
We got our asses kicked by insanely lucky shooting by people like Serge Ibaka, having no answer for Durant, getting jobbed by the refs on several occaisions (not just game 6), and certain fairly important players (Green, Splitter) being ghosts for us all series.
Also, saying "Parker is our best player and Durant is their best player", is not a good argument against Parker. Parker isn't close to Durant in dominance. On his best day he might end up with slightly more points than Durant on a normal Durant day. Anyway. . .this thread is about PGs. . .and my reply was to a guy who claimed Westbrook "exposed" Parker. I posted statistical facts proving that it was the other way around if anything, now you're throwing some crap in there about Durant who has nothing to do with it.
Fact is, the Thunder's top 2 players are better than our top 2 players because if you combined both our rosters, Durant would easily be the best player on that team by far. Parker's job was to outplay the guy at his position (who was considered to be better than him) and hold him down as much as possible. Parker's mission was accomplished.
It was up to the rest of the team to step up, and they didn't. Parker is literally the last guy I'd blame for our failure last year. He was our best player the entire season up to and including the WCF.
Much more to blame based on expectations and actual performance are: Splitter, Green, Bonner, Diaw, and Ginobili. And yes Ginobili. 3 terrible games 3 good games. All 3 of his terrible games resulted in losses. Also, 20 turnovers on 20 assists for the series? Garbage stats for our "second playmaker". He was good in a few games but too inconsistent to lead us to the Finals.
Parker's an easy guy to blame, but not only did he have an "expected performance", but he held Westbrook well below his expected level of production. If only mroe Spurs played their matchups as well as Parker, we'd have won that despite the refs trying to give it to OKC.
I would take Rondo. Parker's biggest strength is his scoring, we all know that. Particularly his scoring in the paint. His jumpshot is very streaky. Over the past few years we have seen Parker get taken away, in the playoffs. Teams with size beg Parker to come inside, he gets swatted, forced into awkward layups, or throws an ill advised pass from inside out. They don't fear his jumpshot, they sag in the paint. He has never been a great passer, and we know he is not a strong defender.
Rondo is more athletic, much better on D, and a much better passer. He could help our guys get better/easier shots. We have a lot of jumpshooters, I could see Rondo feeding them nicely. Also, getting Tim some easy baskets once in a while would be a nice change.
We know the Spurs have to get better on D, Rondo would be a step in the right direction.
Everyone here knows I am not Parkers biggest fan, but this season I thought that Pop (or coach Bud's improved offense) finally gave Parker an advantage. Parker running around with the ball is always something I hated; Think 2009 playoffs. But the motion offense I have been begging for was put in place which allowed Parker to make passes from a safe area on the court without dribbling to much; ie guys coming off curls and off screens for jumpshots. Also the motion offense had guys like Duncan in one on one situations with the defense shifted because of multiple cuts and screens.
Rondo, Cp3 Calderon etc have made an assist killing of motion offense. Its Parkers turn to take advantage of that, and he did last season and will even more this season. I love Rondo's game, but he has negatives that the average fan won't notice like his assist are high, but so are his turnovers. He has a decent defense behind him, so that allows him to "GAMBLE" for steals. Oh an those rebounds are great, but when he runs in to get an offensive rebound and doesnt get it, his man ( a pg, usually a fast one) is able to get out in transition. While those triple dbls are awesome to watch, they come at a price as well. Not to mention his shooting is not that great but then neither is Parkers.
Rondo is better, tbh. He sets easy baskets for others when nothing goes well. His defense is also better. He's 3-4 years younger. And I think that if Chip works with him, he will shot too.
Not sure about his character, though.
Sorry Tony. I would make that trade without a moment's hesitation.
I disagree with most of that tbh. I bolded your points so you know what I'm referring to.
on Parker's scoring: Parker is one of the few guys on our team who even score in the paint. He's typically one of our most efficient scorers, yet at the same time one of our biggest sources for points. Two things that usually don't mix. Any scoring we'd get from Rondo's passing, we'd lose with the big drop in scoring output from Parker to Rondo.
Parker's jumpshot: It's not that streaky, he's been hitting it very often over the last 2-3 years. All jumpshots are streaky, Parker's is not particularly more streaky than anyone else's. I would even argue that it should be considered consistent based on how the rest of the league performs that shot. It's also leagues better than Rondo's jumpshot which often seems non existant.
"they don't fear his jumpshot, they sag in the paint": Sorry, I thought you were talking about Rondo there for a second, since that comment applies to him far more than it does Parker. I think what you actually meant to say was, "they fear Parker's ability to drive more than his jumpshot", because Parker hits open jumpers far too often to "not fear it".
Rondo is more athletic: Sure, but not exactly faster, and that athleticism doesn't equate to better offense. Rondo's main trait that's superior to Parker's is his passing, and athleticism has nothing to do with it. Defense would be the other thing, but tbh, he's not leagues ahead of Parker since you're underrating Parker's D.
Rondo being "much" better on defense: He's better, but MUCH better? I'm not that sure. Parker is an underrated defender. He's held Russell Westbrook to 37% shooting throughout all of their matchups both in the regular season AND postseason. He also typically outplays Chris Paul when they match up, and gets the better of Steve Nash and many other "elite" point guards as well. Parker's underrated defensively because he doesn't pile up the steals stat. What he does do it stay in front of guys or funnel them the right direction so they can't get a decent look at the basket or their teammates. It isn't flashy, but it statistically works just as well if not better than gambling an extra 4-5 times to get one extra steal per game.
"we have a lot of jumpshooters": And we need to shoot jumpers less. We need to score in the paint more. Part of the reason our defense blows is because we take tons of jumpers and don't get back in time to fully set and get a score forced down out throats as we're not in position to defend yet. The last time it was good was when we were taking less jumpers and more close range post shots.
Spurs do have to get better on D, but the point guard spot, tbh, is pretty much either the #1 or #2 best defensive spot on the team right now. Perimeter defense typically isn't an issue except when we put in Gary Neal or one of the other scrub defenders on the bench. Our defense needs help at C/PF, and off the bench at pretty much every position but SF and maybe SG.
So adding Rondo doesn't really improve our defense, since we'd be going from a B+ defender to an A- or A one at one spot. Meanwhile, we're still a D+ defensively at whichever C/PF spot Tim Duncan isn't currently playing at, and are getting even older at SG.
PG is literally the one position that we're set at for years. No point in trying to improve it when much larger improvement can be done elsewhere.
This x 100. I would not trade anyone for any of our big 3 at this point. Until they're done, they're Spurs...we screw up our chemistry and Tim might as well retire.
Kidd K with some great arguments in this thread tbh.
Keeping Parker in this hypothetical situation is logical... but it would be nice if Parker could being the toughness that Rondo seems to be a part of with Boston. Having Jack back instead of RJ shows us how big of a difference the at ude of a leader can be for the team.
When Miami stiffened the defense (one of the best in the league), Rondo patiently run the point and still managed to found his team mates for the baskets. The effect is similar to having an unstoppable player, like Duncan was in his prime. Miami barely survived that series.
Celtics better without their assist .
His bad at ude is kind of the X factor. Pop and he would likely clash..
Not sure if serious, a schtick thingy, right ?
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