Stern is gone...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You sound like one of those GW deniers pointing to a cold winter day and using that as a basis. Larry Brown absolutely threw a fit about NBA officiating of star traeatment and you even said they are reluctant to call 6th calls on stars. Now you are backtracking on that and with this lame ass 'deserve to be a spurs fan' nonsense.

Prove that Stern appointed Holt. You made the assertion now prove it. I was trying to point you to who did appoint him but by all means demonstrate.

Really at the end of the day you aren't even adressing arguments.

Marketshare. Shaq's contract in 1996. Presti's comments about the contract size and financial sustainability. You don't deny that the big markets would have resigned him. The list goes on.

You also completely miss my point about the line by line. Posturing about what it said was fun and all but no one read it. I only read most of it because the line by line is just so ing lame. it's right up there with the wall of text. People see it and turn the scroll wheel.

As soon as you started with the whole 'deserve to be a Spur fan' I realized that you were beyond reasoning with and when you posted Farmar, Shasha and Co as examples of the Lakers hard work in developing talent I knew that you were either trolling or pretty stupid. To you this is a pissing contest.

I am not writing this for your sake. I am not trying to appeal to your reason. I am trying to write such that if someone else reads this they will see quickly how asinine your position is. You still don't get it. It's kinda humorous, mouthbreather.

[Obstructed_View]

You sound like one of those GW deniers pointing to a cold winter day and using that as a basis.

Yeah, we all knew you were an idiot. Stop proving the point further.

Larry Brown absolutely threw a fit about NBA officiating of star traeatment

Larry Brown threw a lot of fits. Most of them were because his team lost. His last one had no stars, so what do you expect him to throw a fit about?

and you even said they are reluctant to call 6th calls on stars. Now you are backtracking on that and with this lame ass 'deserve to be a spurs fan' nonsense.

I was trying to find some way that your argument wasn't completely insane. And then Dwight Howard fouled out in game one as a Laker. So much for sanity. It's your complete lack of knowledge of anything NBA or Spurs-related that makes you unworthy to call yourself a Spurs fan, at least an educated one.

Prove that Stern appointed Holt. You made the assertion now prove it. I was trying to point you to who did appoint him but by all means demonstrate.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/stor...ending-lockout

"Holt is widely respected around the league, a cool head on a committee that Stern pieced together two years ago, probably with some regrets. "

Really at the end of the day you aren't even adressing arguments.

I've addressed every argument and debunked them all. You continue to state your belief as fact and cite people with similar opinions to back up your position.

Marketshare.

...has nothing to do with market size. The Clippers are last in a huge market because they suck and make stupid decisions, not because David Stern forces fans not to go to their games. The last horse in a horse race is still a racehorse.

Shaq's contract in 1996.

...was less than Orlando could pay him. Shaq left Orlando, in part, because he didn't like the way the local fans and the media were treating him.

Presti's comments about the contract size and financial sustainability.

...are his opinion, indicative of nothing.

You don't deny that the big markets would have resigned him.

And you don't deny that the Thunder COULD have resigned him. Again, indicative of nothing.

The list goes on.

You also completely miss my point about the line by line. Posturing about what it said was fun and all but no one read it.

Since you did it first, I continued. There were way more things that you said that were completely stupid. Sorry it got so long. No one else is reading it because you admit you have no proof in your original post. I just find this entertaining.

I only read most of it because the line by line is just so ing lame. it's right up there with the wall of text. People see it and turn the scroll wheel.

Though you did it too. I actually thought you might read it and realize you were wrong. Again, if it weren't fun to piss you off, I'd call it wasted time.

As soon as you started with the whole 'deserve to be a Spur fan' I realized that you were beyond reasoning with

Attempts to shame you for your unbelievable ignorance don't work. Check.

and when you posted Farmar, Shasha and Co as examples of the Lakers hard work in developing talent I knew that you were either trolling or pretty stupid.

Guys who contributed to les as role players or trade chips don't count to you. Check. "I know Pat Riley built teams with hard work, but the current Lakers who beat the Spurs just had it handed to them by the commish and the refs." Well, if anyone has a handle on "pretty stupid", it's you.

To you this is a pissing contest.

It's more like a clubbing baby seals contest. You shouldn't have stuck your head out of the ice.

I am not writing this for your sake. I am not trying to appeal to your reason. I am trying to write such that if someone else reads this they will see quickly how asinine your position is. You still don't get it. It's kinda humorous, mouthbreather.

Since you attacked several people on here who have a favorable opinion of Stern, you don't respond to logic, and you call names and state your opinions as fact with admittedly no proof, it's very clear that you're not trying to appeal to anyone's reason.

All the things you hate about the NBA are not directly - or in most ways, even indirectly - the fault of the commissioner. The sport soared in popularity under his watch, both in the US and globally, players and owners alike made money (Even Donald Sterling who was mailing it in) and new teams like Chicago and San Antonio and Detroit and Miami and Dallas won les, despite the commissioner, all the league's personnel people and the refs being in the bag for the Lakers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

more line by line and posturing

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1) Franchise stability. That's what Presti cited was the reason for not signing Harden ie the franchise could not remain solvent and signed him. Again back to my point about making a choice between competing and even breaking even financially. Sure they could have gone into debt to sign him but that is a clear disadvantage to teams like the Lakers who are going to pay around $90m in luxury tax next year or Mark Cuban who signs multiple free agents to big contracts year after year. You do not deny that the large markets would have signed him no hesitation.

And I also want to point out that while you claim to have debunked everything you do not deny that the big market teams would not have hesitated to sign him. You tried to change the subject but that is dropping the argument with a bait and switch and not debunking anything.

2) Star treatment: Indiviual anecdotes of star players fouling out when the commit flagrant fouls and only get called for a foul aside I posit:

At an MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference two researches named Tobias Moskowitz and Jon Wertheim presented data that proved stars get preferred treatment. The results were based over a three year study that looked at over 1.5 million plays in 3500 different games. It looked at the loose ball foul calls on so called "star" players. They determined which players were star players based on MVP votes.



The results were not shocking to me. The article stated:

"-42 percent of loose balls fouls called on stars in “regular” situation compared to 57 percent of the time on non-stars in plays.

-The numbers show a much more dramatic shift, favoring the star players when they are in “foul” trouble with only 28 percent of foul calls being called on them, a huge drop from the earlier 42 percent.

-When the roles are reversed however, and the non-star is in foul trouble, the numbers normalize again with 48 percent of the fouls called on the non-star compared to 51 percent for the star.

The other study involving the NBA involved a look at subjective calls (offensive fouls, traveling, double dribble, etc.) being made compared to non-subjective calls (kick ball, 24 second violation, etc.) over the course of the game. The tendency to want to let the players decide the game in close as well as late game situations showed itself once again in the form of omission bias, with the rate of calls falling dramatically from the 1st half to the 2nd half. Another even sharper drop in subjective calls was apparent in overtime games with the subjective or “judgment” calls. The non-subjective call rates remained very level over those time spans." (Bias in Officiating)

http://www.unicommons.com/node/26118

Stan Van Gundy and Larry Brown see it:

http://www.aolnews.com/2009/12/15/br...tar-treatment/

"The reality is, it depends on the person,'' Brown said to the newspaper. "Some people can do that and some can't. And that's wrong. You can't ref that way. For players to say they're confused by how things are called, I can see a lot of guys honestly saying that.''

"I don't think the stars should get preferential treatment at all," he said. "The rules should be called. I don't think their ability [or] size, should work for or against them. The ideal world is call the rules. That's what you want done. But coaches -- we're not the most objective people in the world.''

BBall Breakdown Notes that while Wade gets preferential treatment in the 2006 playoffs it did not determine the outcome of the game



82 games Does a Nice statistical analysis of bias by refs:

http://www.82games.com/fouldraw.htm

PJ Brown, Phil Jackson, Bob Hill and Gearld Wallace Chime in

"He gets all the calls, that's what makes him special.'' - Gerald Wallace

"It's unbelievable what he gets away with.'' - Bob Hill

"I can't believe he has the audacity to complain to the refs, he should be grateful for what they've done for him in his career. He is what he is today because of them." - P.J. Brown

"He travels on that spin move. He picks up that pivot foot... everybody knows it. Dwayne Wade can cover so much ground when he makes that move. As you know, he can go 20 feet with that spin move and get to the basket." - Phil Jackson

Sam Smith has this to say on NBA.com

Do the referees consciously protect James knowing he is perhaps the league's top marketing figure and he is featured more than any player on the nightly sports highlights? I always doubt that knowing the integrity of the refereeing corps as a group and believe NBA officiating is the best in sports.

Still, we've never seen anything like this. Especially at a time when it is generally agreed with rules changes it is the most difficult time to defend on the perimeter without committing fouls.

James is averaging 1.72 fouls per game in an average of 37.9 minutes per game. James hasn't even been in foul trouble one game this season. He never has had more than four fouls called on him in a game, and since March 1 is being called for fewer than 1.3 fouls per game.

In 12 of the 20 games since then, James has been called for one or zero fouls in a game. James had a stretch of five straight games to conclude March averaging 36.8 minutes per game without being called for one foul. Not one in five games! In the last nine games, James has been called for three personal fouls. It's really amazing given the involvement James has in the action of the game.

"It's impossible," said one team executive.

The executive said there is one slight explanation. That the game has changed to so much drive and kick that the perimeter defenders end up guarding the three so much, and don't foul as often. That there is less one on one penetration. Still, he said not for five consecutive games like that.

James is now averaging 2.02 fouls per game in his career and has fouled out just three times in six seasons. Jordan averaged 2.6 fouls per game in his career and had fouled out eight times in his first six seasons.

Jordan averaged fewer than two fouls per game only in his last two seasons when he was not as active as a defender, and never as few as James' current 1.72. Among some of the great perimeter players in history, at a time when substantially more perimeter contact was allowed, Larry Bird averaged about 2.5 fouls, Magic Johnson 2.26 and Jerry West and Oscar Robertson well above two per game.

In the game now, Kobe Bryant has a career average of about 2.7 fouls per game and is about 2.3 this season. Dwyane Wade has a career average of 2.67 and is about 2.2 this season.

The all-time star with the fewest personal fouls was Wilt Chamberlain, who never fouled out of a game in his 14-year career. It was a point of pride with Wilt, who averaged 1.99 fouls per game in his career, barely below where James is now.

It simply defies explanation how James, who is an aggressive player, can be whistled for so few fouls per game, and especially at a time his team is saying he never has played better defense and when the rules are more stringent regarding perimeter contact. Can he truly be that perfect?

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith2_090406.html

3) Andrew Bynum and the scrub all star team Sasha, George et al. i would first like to point out that the Lakers upgraded from Bynum because they realized that he wouldn't get them a le and instead acquired Howard. HARD WORK! This is despite that with all of their salary commitments leading to $90m in tax while Presti is talking about franchise stability. i think it's Big Bird time:



4) Another argument you just ignored: O'Neals 8 year $140m deal in 1996. I know it's fun to claim that every team could have offered that but it just not stand up. If you will recall David Robinson had a deal that guaranteed him the average of the top 5 salaries in the NBA. After the O'Neal and other deals the Spurs went to Robinson and told him that they could not afford to pay that. Robinson being the gracious man he is restructured. It's also important to note that the roster was full of solid starters but no other superstars so while Shaq was signing the most lucrative contract in sports history the Spurs are telling their supserstar that at those rates they will have to trade him or he needs to restructure. Robinson was the man!

5) How Holt got on that committee is immaterial. Holt went and publicly pleaded the case for small markets because Stern and Silver had shown no interest in doing so duing the proceedings.