Did you go to college/university or anything?

[Latarian Milton]

major doesn't matter much in todays economy when most graduates would end up working at starbucks or other deadend ty jobs like that. if your majored in engineering but end up finding a job that's not at all related to your major after graduation, it's then safe to say your school years (4yrs or even longer) were basically wasted because your knowledge in engineering is useless in your daily life. at least an art major would enrich your life and you can continue to study this subject as well as your life the way you were taught to

[DMC]

Have I at any point argued against the importance of the sciences?

Why would you?

I still don't understand why you're so attached to the idea that only one of these things can be important at a time.

Again you're inferring things I did not say. You seem to be very much attached to that method. I never said the two are mutually exclusive. I said YOU have ty degrees.

The assumption that all, or even a majority, of the people who abandon the sciences for a liberal arts degree do so because the latter is easier is an awfully big one.

I said as much but of course you prefer the liberal approach to quoting which is just to infer anything you like from a statement you just quoted. (hint: check the statement in parenthesis).

You're not very good at veiled insults.

Somewhere along the way you took a class on being offended. The terms "flighty and self serving" describe things I would prefer to do, yet somehow that was about you. Get over yourself already.

[DMC]

major doesn't matter much in todays economy when most graduates would end up working at starbucks or other deadend ty jobs like that. if your majored in engineering but end up finding a job that's not at all related to your major after graduation, it's then safe to say your school years (4yrs or even longer) were basically wasted because your knowledge in engineering is useless in your daily life. at least an art major would enrich your life and you can continue to study this subject as well as your life the way you were taught to

Ok, if you received an M.D. and ended up working at Starbucks, your degree was pretty much wasted. I don't know any engineers who graduated and went to work at Starbucks. You can continue to study engineering. I don't get what you're trying to say because it doesn't make sense.

[Latarian Milton]

What people (plural as in other people) value is reflected in the demand. What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle. Some put the pursuit of dreams ahead of the sustaining part and some never had to consider sustaining a lifestyle as they had it in the bag from inheritance so now they are just perusing in a Jethro Bodine like manner, wonder what they will become today, street car conductor or brain surgeon.

As a nation perhaps, and to those who look back (historians, another liberal art) but to those cutting the path to new designs and ideas, cures and such, the arts are just a diversion.

Perhaps, but what was in those texts that was important? Mankind would have died quickly were it not for science. Plagues would have killed us all had we sat around thinking of things to argue about and writing plays.

good point, say if a lifestyle is the only thing you pursue in your life, you have basically no individual value

[DMC]

good point, say if a lifestyle is the only thing you pursue in your life, you have basically no individual value

Define individual value.

[DMC]

We are all trained monkeys regardless of what you imagine I do or not.

No one is exempt. Everyone was trained/educated somewhere in some field of study or another it doesn't really mean and to brag and try to act superior is the funniest joke of all.

You really have no place in this conversation. You should only be here if we were talking about 4 month certificates.

[DMC]

All you have done is shown the significance of historians: another liberal art.

And despite the greatness of the Romans technological achievements of the Romans the plagues did kill us. what do the historians say: 1/4 of the population of Europe died duing both the pneumonic and bubonic plagues.

We were doing neither the liberal arts nor the sciences. Both played a role in the recovery though.

I am trying to find your idea of 'individual values' beyond sustaining a lifestyle.

So far we have you will help if there is a collapse which is just sustaining a lifestyle.

And I would also discuss some of the B.S. degrees that have very little pragmatic purpose. Take particle physics. One quote that will always stick out to me was of Leon Lederman speaking before the Congressional Budget Committee in the mid-1980s explaining to them why the Waxahachie particle collider was worth building. He said in response to a question in how the thing would further civilization as it had no real pragmatic value. I don't remember the exact quote but he responded that it was because the pursuit of such knowledge is what made a civilization worth having. I think he is right.

There are others, I was reading a paper that described how a mathematician had proven some equation held true for all prime numbers and according to scientific american it wsa some significant advance in number theory. To you that's worthless compared to something that might get you a $500/hr consulting fee.

Just seems artificial, stark and cynical to me.

You just wrote a novel on your presumptions of my thinking. I know the value of numbers. Every liberal arts major here would suck a donkey at high noon at Dillards and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd for 500 an hour wages. For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job. You got a degree in engineering and I would bet you don't volunteer your time at your place of employment, and that you haven't turned down a raise. Both of you could have simply taken classes to enhance your understanding of the human mind, or to learn and appreciate fine arts and music but you both are trying to further your careers.

Again, loads of righteous indignation from hypocrites. Oh evil man wants to make money with his degree... shame shame.


Oh and I like how you say "so far we have"

You need to stand on your own here. No legriding.

[Latarian Milton]

Ok, if you received an M.D. and ended up working at Starbucks, your degree was pretty much wasted. I don't know any engineers who graduated and went to work at Starbucks. You can continue to study engineering. I don't get what you're trying to say because it doesn't make sense.

you must be still living in the old ages when assholes could get well paid even w/o college degrees. you can go back to school anytime but i doubt you can still remember the jargon in engineering after a few years working at starbucks tbh

[silverblk mystix]

You really have no place in this conversation. You should only be here if we were talking about 4 month certificates.

Shows how much you really know.

DMC : "Only certain trained monkeys can join in this thread!"

[DMC]

you must be still living in the old ages when assholes could get well paid even w/o college degrees. you can go back to school anytime but i doubt you can still remember the jargon in engineering after a few years working at starbucks tbh

Working at a job other than your major has the same effect on all majors. Go to any Starbucks and ask those working if they have a degree. If you find one with a degree, find out if it's in a science or arts field.

[Latarian Milton]

Define individual value.

by your own definition of individual value: What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle.

sustaining a lifestyle is a basic condition on which you can pursue your dreams but it makes no sense to put it upside down. if your a engineer, what your dream is supposed to be is becoming one of the bests in your profession instead of just sustaining a lifestyle with your handsome paycheck. its like you have to eat to sustain your life, but eating shouldn't be the only goal of life for a human being imho

[DMC]

Shows how much you really know.

DMC : "Only certain trained monkeys can join in this thread!"

You assume that because you live a ty life and work in a ing prison manually cornholing sex offenders that somehow you're something to behold. You're really just a fat low forehead having be@ner with no aspirations to be anything significant.

[DMC]

sustaining a lifestyle is a basic condition on which you can pursue your dreams but it makes no sense to put it upside down. if your a engineer, what your dream is supposed to be is becoming one of the bests in your profession instead of just sustaining a lifestyle with your handsome paycheck. its like you have to eat to sustain your life, but eating shouldn't be the only goal of life for a human being imho

There's difference in what an individual values and the value of an individual (as you used the term above). You're equivocating terms. Go back and tell me the definition of individual value.

[Latarian Milton]

Working at a job other than your major has the same effect on all majors. Go to any Starbucks and ask those working if they have a degree. If you find one with a degree, find out if it's in a science or arts field.

not really imho. if your an engineer but have failed to find an engineering-related job right after graduation, your forgetting the whole real soon because you can't practice engineering at home or by yourself, you need an engineering job in order to consolidate your knowledge in engineering imho. it sucks to work at a deadend job when you clearly deserve a better one with the knowledge & degree you have, but at least a " " major gives you sort of an excuse for it imho

[Latarian Milton]

There's difference in what an individual values and the value of an individual (as you used the term above). You're equivocating terms. Go back and tell me the definition of individual value.

i might be wrong but the individual value of a person shouldn't be measured by what he gets, but what he gives. i know some s in my neighborhood who make good money selling drugs but i never consider them persons of high individual values, they're worthless citizens actuallly.

[silverblk mystix]

You assume that because you live a ty life and work in a ing prison manually cornholing sex offenders that somehow you're something to behold. You're really just a fat low forehead having be@ner with no aspirations to be anything significant.

You wouldn't have any idea what it even means to "be anything significant" if it bit you in the ass.

[CuckingFunt]

Again you're inferring things I did not say. You seem to be very much attached to that method. I never said the two are mutually exclusive. I said YOU have ty degrees.

Yes. You said that I have ty degrees. You then justified that assertion by stating that my degrees are ty because the sciences are important and the arts are not.

Somewhere along the way you took a class on being offended. The terms "flighty and self serving" describe things I would prefer to do, yet somehow that was about you. Get over yourself already.

This thread has shown that you're far more obsessed with my education than I am. So, by all means, follow your own advice and get over it already.

Incidentally, your comment was very clearly intended as an insult. And it has little to do with the use of the terms "flighty" or "self serving."

For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job.

My degrees are in pursuit of the job I want, but the job I want isn't in the pursuit of money. I would assume that is also the case for many of the people who pursue careers in the sciences.

I would hope so, at least. Otherwise it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to in search of a paycheck.

[DMC]

You wouldn't have any idea what it even means to "be anything significant" if it bit you in the ass.

As long as it didn't try to pull a crack filled balloon from my ass I'd be ok with that.

[DMC]

Yes. You said that I have ty degrees. You then justified that assertion by stating that my degrees are ty because the sciences are important and the arts are not.

The arts are important in the same way a child's finger paintings hanging on your refrigerator are important. The sciences are important in the same way the child's inhaler is important.

This thread has shown that you're far more obsessed with my education than I am.

That was apparent from the onset.

So, by all means, follow your own advice and get over it already.

I have gotten over it. Now I am just toying around with you.

Incidentally, your comment was very clearly intended as an insult. And it has little to do with the use of the terms "flighty" or "self serving."

I was referring to my desires. You find creative ways to be offended. You're a textbook liberal.

My degrees are in pursuit of the job I want, but the job I want isn't in the pursuit of money. I would assume that is also the case for many of the people who pursue careers in the sciences.

Can't you perform a task without needing it to be a job? If I wasn't in pursuit of money I'd be dragging a self made popper along the banks of the Amazon river looking for Pea bass. If I have to be at work, I might as well do what I like, and that might as well pay me as much as possible. Most men don't have the luxury of just getting jobs that just complete them. They need to be providers. You obviously do not need to be a provider.

I would hope so, at least. Otherwise it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to in search of a paycheck.

You have to have some interest in your job else you won't make much money because you won't be good enough at it to even keep your job. Given the fact that you even have a job and that you did a lot of otherwise worthless , I'd say your courses were geared to furthering your career. You can say that's not for the money but would you settle for entry level pay?

[silverblk mystix]

As long as it didn't try to pull a crack filled balloon from my ass I'd be ok with that.

I see they are still training monkeys to be racist and ignorant. Brilliant!


Nothing has changed.

[DMC]

i might be wrong but the individual value of a person shouldn't be measured by what he gets, but what he gives. i know some s in my neighborhood who make good money selling drugs but i never consider them persons of high individual values, they're worthless citizens actuallly.

You haven't defined the term. You're just giving examples.

What is the value of an individual? If I make more money, I pay more taxes (theoretically). If I pay more taxes, I provide for other people. If I provide for other people, I am pulling more than just my share. On the flip side, if I take out a loan and get a job that doesn't pay enough to make loan payments so I default, I am now taking away from the pot and pulling less than my share. I probably am not paying taxes since my expenses outweigh my income. I have become dependent. The purpose of higher education is to become independent both mentally and financially. Eventually education is about getting the tools you need to be successful in the world. If you get the wrong tools, you aren't going to succeed. A HS grad with no college is less of a burden than someone who got a worthless degree and owes thousands in guaranteed loans and cannot make the payments. At least the HS student hasn't bilked the economy just yet.

Granted not all arts degrees end up being financially worthless, but the BA degrees don't do much. You need a Masters at least in most liberal arts to be even qualified for many positions that freshmen students might think a BA will get. How many psychology majors think they are going to be psychologists only to learn their BA in psychology barely qualifies them to be a kindergarten PE teacher?

[DMC]

I see they are still training monkeys to be racist and ignorant. Brilliant!


Nothing has changed.

Nothing racist about the term "be@ner". It's not about the entire Latino race, just Hispanics.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You just wrote a novel on your presumptions of my thinking. I know the value of numbers. Every liberal arts major here would suck a donkey at high noon at Dillards and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd for 500 an hour wages. For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job. You got a degree in engineering and I would bet you don't volunteer your time at your place of employment, and that you haven't turned down a raise. Both of you could have simply taken classes to enhance your understanding of the human mind, or to learn and appreciate fine arts and music but you both are trying to further your careers.

Again, loads of righteous indignation from hypocrites. Oh evil man wants to make money with his degree... shame shame.


Oh and I like how you say "so far we have"

You need to stand on your own here. No legriding.

It was a few paragraphs. You have no idea what goes into writing a novel apparently. another liberal art.

You're the one arguing for the superiority of empirical science. I am waiting for some justification of worth beyond making money. You have yet to give one other than being of worth after some hypothetical collapse. I am not making any assumptions. You simply have not stated anything that you find worthwhile other than making a buck.

I also never said that I do not value financial considerations. I cannot speak for funt but i don't believe that she says that either. The difference is that that is not all that is valued. I absolutely love how math is representative of the real world like with prime numbers and the fine structure constant. I love how the various rational mathematical constructs are the single best predictor of the future that there is. I am fascinated with the concept of orthogonality as it relates to complex numbers in Euler's Equations. That may make me somewhat of a pedantic but I love it for what it is in and of itself.

that is what i have been trying to get at. why do you want to pursue empirical science other than financial considerations. Not that financial considerations are not important but do you value them in any other way. You simply have not even come close to doing that. it just seems that you like money and the prestige that it thinks it gives you. If there is something more then say it. I cannot guess.

And as for the 'we have' comment it is just a figure of speech. All we have from you so far is... I never write for just myself. When I write i am also speaking to the reader as well. It's a writing technique designed to keep the reader engaged and include them in the argument. Empiricism is not the only means of persuasion.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nothing racist about the term "be@ner". It's not about the entire Latino race, just Hispanics.

Channeling WC I see.

[DMC]

Channeling WC I see.

No, razzing SBM.