Did you go to college/university or anything?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, razzing SBM.

The two notions are not mutually exclusive. You can both use the same logic as WC and troll at the same time. Saying racist and then cowering behind 'trollololol' is real stand up I must say.

[DMC]

It was a few paragraphs. You have no idea what goes into writing a novel apparently. another liberal art.

I'm a published author though no novels.

You're the one arguing for the superiority of empirical science. I am waiting for some justification of worth beyond making money. You have yet to give one other than being of worth after some hypothetical collapse. I am not making any assumptions. You simply have not stated anything that you find worthwhile other than making a buck.

So you're waiting for me to say something you feel is a second reason why science is more important than art, or basically you want me to offer you something. If you really needed that you'd not chosen science as a profession.

I also never said that I do not value financial considerations. I cannot speak for funt but i don't believe that she says that either. The difference is that that is not all that is valued. I absolutely love how math is representative of the real world like with prime numbers and the fine structure constant. I love how the various rational mathematical constructs are the single best predictor of the future that there is. I am fascinated with the concept of orthogonality as it relates to complex numbers in Euler's Equations. That may make me somewhat of a pedantic but I love it for what it is in and of itself.

Yeah sure. There are satisfying aspects of my work, but that's only because I found something both lucrative and personally satisfying. If you don't want/need money, you can do whatever you wish obviously.

that is what i have been trying to get at. why do you want to pursue empirical science other than financial considerations. Not that financial considerations are not important but do you value them in any other way. You simply have not even come close to doing that. it just seems that you like money and the prestige that it thinks it gives you. If there is something more then say it. I cannot guess.

What you are trying to establish is a common ground between science and art that has to do with desire and personal satisfaction, but that's a red herring in comparison to my point in this thread.

And as for the 'we have' comment it is just a figure of speech. All we have from you so far is... I never write for just myself. When I write i am also speaking to the reader as well. It's a writing technique designed to keep the reader engaged and include them in the argument. Empiricism is not the only means of persuasion.

It's more like having the other readers on your side, otherwise how can you say "we have you will..."? The terms "we" and "you" are mutually exclusive when used in that format. I cannot be both part of "we" and a separate en y unless you were my therapist which you are not. The unassuming way to approach that is not to assume you have a forum audience who's backing you up and who's hanging on your every word. You are not the spokesperson here for anyone but you, so when you address me, make it man to man, not "we" to "you".

[DMC]

The two notions are not mutually exclusive. You can both use the same logic as WC and troll at the same time. Saying racist and then cowering behind 'trollololol' is real stand up I must say.

Since you're not my hero I am not interested in what you find to be "stand up". After reading some of your self promoting drivel, I am not sure you have a handle on the concept anyhow.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Still cannot name a single thing. That is sad and not in a condescending manner either. It's unfortunate.

And of course you don't care what i think. You don't care what anyone else thinks either. I don't self promote beyond trying to demonstrate that I know what I am talking about. You talk more about me than I do.

And while you may have written a technical article at some point is clear you have no idea how to write creative nor compelling works. The use of the second person plural is a writing device in persuasive writing. It's a widely used rhetorical device and has no assumption that my reader is on my side. It is an attempt to engage and not a presumption that we are.

Also you are hardly the only person that i intend to read this. Others have read it and that is indicated by use of descriptive language that I have used in their own writing. i can think of few better indications that my message is getting across to others. I actually note this often. That is an example of self promotion if you want to label one.

What I find interesting is that you only view my technique through your own lens and never consider what anyone else might think of the approach.

[DMC]

Still cannot name a single thing. That is sad and not in a condescending manner either. It's unfortunate.

It's unfortunate that I am not taking the bait? Anything I've mentioned you've ignored and pretended I didn't say it. I can see your setup coming a mile away.

And of course you don't care what i think. You don't care what anyone else thinks either. I don't self promote beyond trying to demonstrate that I know what I am talking about. You talk more about me than I do.

No, you fluff up your zealous self righteous act with "it saddens me" and "unfortunate" and the like. If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't need a novel to get it across. You also wouldn't attempt such banal traps as you've been attempting here in hopes I'm WC under a different username.

You talk plenty about yourself, for example you wouldn't mention your degree but you had to go into the esoteric aspect of your work in hopes of impressing someone who never heard of it.

And while you may have written a technical article at some point is clear you have no idea how to write creative nor compelling works. The use of the second person plural is a writing device in persuasive writing. It's a widely used rhetorical device and has no assumption that my reader is on my side. It is an attempt to engage and not a presumption that we are.

My published writing was about the election (not saying which). I have authored technical articles and such, who hasn't? I wouldn't call that "published' just because it ends up on some user manual.

Also you are hardly the only person that i intend to read this. Others have read it and that is indicated by use of descriptive language that I have used in their own writing. i can think of few better indications that my message is getting across to others. I actually note this often. That is an example of self promotion if you want to label one.

I don't care who you intend to read it, you're responding to me. The proper form for your style would be to have a formal debate with a moderator and all the little response nuances that go with formal debate. The problem is that would require to either argue for or against something as just holding up a scorecard doesn't fly well.

What I find interesting is that you only view my technique through your own lens and never consider what anyone else might think of the approach.

When you respond to them, that's their problem not mine. When you respond to me and act like you have an audience, you're pretty much pomp and cir stance and that's about the weight I give it. Don't expect thoughtful responses when you come across like some jr moderator.

And lol at "my technique" as if PowderPuff girl has a technique. Isn't it ironic?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What setup? This is boring and all you are doing is dissembling. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

[DMC]

What setup? This is boring and all you are doing is dissembling. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

lol

[Latarian Milton]

You haven't defined the term. You're just giving examples.

What is the value of an individual? If I make more money, I pay more taxes (theoretically). If I pay more taxes, I provide for other people. If I provide for other people, I am pulling more than just my share. On the flip side, if I take out a loan and get a job that doesn't pay enough to make loan payments so I default, I am now taking away from the pot and pulling less than my share. I probably am not paying taxes since my expenses outweigh my income. I have become dependent. The purpose of higher education is to become independent both mentally and financially. Eventually education is about getting the tools you need to be successful in the world. If you get the wrong tools, you aren't going to succeed. A HS grad with no college is less of a burden than someone who got a worthless degree and owes thousands in guaranteed loans and cannot make the payments. At least the HS student hasn't bilked the economy just yet.

Granted not all arts degrees end up being financially worthless, but the BA degrees don't do much. You need a Masters at least in most liberal arts to be even qualified for many positions that freshmen students might think a BA will get. How many psychology majors think they are going to be psychologists only to learn their BA in psychology barely qualifies them to be a kindergarten PE teacher?

$ ain't the only goal of education, although it's been tilting towards that end in recent years, it doesn't mean that is the way it should be imho. also i don't get why some students would rather take the loans and/or study remotely from their homes when they could've saved alot of $ by attending a local school & living with parents, getting in debt ain't gonna be nice especially when your at a relatively young age and student loan should be only used as a last resort tbh. if you live frugally through your 4yrs college life you won't have to spend too much other than the tuition imho

and even if you study engineering or things that you think are gonna be useful in the workforce, you'll still have a hard time looking for a decent job that exactly fits your profession when you graduate. the economy is shrinking and jobs that require skills/knowledge have taken the major brunt of economic crisis imho. as a new college graduate w/o much working experience you also needs at least a Master to get even an entry-level job in engineering, finances etc... if your an ambitious young lad with a college degree who doesn't have a family or a to feed, i don't see no point for you in working on a ty job instead of continuing to learn something new and getting better prepared for a prosperous recovered economy a few years from now tbh

[FuzzyLumpkins]

as a new college graduate w/o much working experience you also needs at least a Master to get even an entry-level job in engineering, finances etc...

While i certainly agree with your overall sentiment this part just doesn't bear out. There have been several studies that show getting a masters in engineering is not going to get you a net income greater than just entering the pool straight out with a BS. You will lose more money paying for the masters than you will just taking the job a BS qualifies you for.

[DMC]

The engineering degree grad doesn't have nearly as bleak an outlook at some here have painted. In fact, they have a very good outlook, and LT, they don't yet have a profession so their options are wide open. If you cannot find a job with EE from a decent school, you're really not looking.

[AmericanPsycho]

I don't have a degree but I am in sales and make over 100K.

[silverblk mystix]

I don't have a degree but I am in sales and make over 100K.

Good for you, but --put that coffee down---coffee is for closers!

[m>s]

lmfao what the is " studies"

[DMC]

studies is something you take, if you're female, to understand why you prefer a face full of carpet over a tube steak. If you're a guy, it's just a way to find .