Rank the Spurs defenders..

[ElNono]

Fundamentally sound meaning he knows where to be in the Spurs defensive scheme and is almost always in the right position. Bonner rarely makes mental mistakes defensively and doesn't deviate from the gameplan. (Top three fundamentally sound defenders on this team are probably Duncan, Parker and Bonner. Ginobili would probably be next but he loses some standing in this category since he likes to roam so much.)

That said, Bonner is still average at his absolute ceiling because players can still score on him if he's technically doing everything right due to his lack of length and lack of athleticism. And the few times he does make a mental mistake, it's extra glaring because he has no ability to get back into the play and redeem himself.

And while I say Bonner is fundamentally sound, I'd say he has bad instincts. Someone like Robert Horry wasn't too long or athletic but he was both fundamentally sound and had fantastic instincts so he was able to be an asset on defense even when it appeared he was overmatched.

Okay, that's what I thought. You were referring to his fundamentals with regards to the system, not in basketball generally (what you call instincts). I don't disagree that he puts the effort out there to do what's asked to do.

If I had to rank his general defensive fundamentals it would probably go along these lines:

- Effort: Excellent
- Basic stance: Good
- Overall footwork (staying in front of his man, lateral movement): Average
- Overall rebounding (boxing out, positioning): Below average
- Paint defense (charges, contesting shots, shot blocking): Poor

As far as within the system, I still think his rotations (brain farts) are still fairly common for a guy that's been in the system for a while. Like you pointed out, whenever that happens, his slow feet probably magnifies it even more.

[siraulo23]

IMO

Good
1. Tiago Splitter
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kawhi Leonard

Above average
4. Manu Ginobili
5. Danny Green
6. Tony Parker

Average


Below average
7. James Anderson
8. TJ Ford
9. Richard Jefferson

Poor
10. Dejuan Blair
11. Matt Bonner
12. Gary Neal

My list

[bugmenot]

What about this year?

[spurraider21]

Duncan

everyone else

[BackHome]

Very Good:
Duncan
Kawhi

Good:
Green

Bad:
Everyone else

[8FOR!3]

All the guys I rated as average are on the upside of that though, none of those are borderline below.

Above Average:
Kawhi Leonard
Tim Duncan

Average:
Tony Parker
Danny Green
Manu Ginobili
Stephen Jackson
Boris Diaw
Tiago Splitter

Below Average:
Nando de Colo
Patty Mills
Gary Neal
DeJuan Blair
Matt Bonner

[timvp]

@ anyone who thought Splitter was ever the best defender on the Spurs.

[Malik Hairston]

ya I have no idea what we were all thinking at the time..it was during Splitter's God-mode stretch IIRC..

ELITE
Tim Duncan (probably the best defender in the NBA so far)

Above average

Danny Green (in the "good" category vs. PGs)
Kawhi Leonard (sometimes average)
Tiago Splitter (sometimes average)

Average

Tony Parker (above average to good when he's focused)
Stephen Jackson (above average vs. SF/PF tweeners or small ball)
Manu Ginobili
Boris Diaw

[TDMVPDPOY]

dont u guys think danny green gives his man to much spacing?

[timvp]

Based just on this year, I'd put the order at:

1. Tim Duncan (stud so far)


2. Tony Parker (he's been focused to start the season)











3. Kawhi Leonard (for his steals; not sure if he can rely on steals long-term)
4. Danny Green (not spectacular but solid and avoiding big mistakes unlike last year)
5. Stephen Jackson (I could be convinced putting him third based on his ability to thrive in small ball)




6. Manu Ginobili (but when he's isolated and trying hard, he's been pretty damn awesome ... unfortch, injury has limited his overall D impact thus far)


7. Gary Neal (huge improvement from last year but still below average overall)
8. Boris Diaw (was fantastic early but his D has been sporadic the last couple weeks -- and he doesn't rebound)
9. DeJuan Blair (a lot better than last year but he has a low ceiling)



10. Tiago Splitter (he's living up to like 1/10th of his D potential right now)


11. Matt Bonner (no rebounding kills his D value)

12. Nando De Colo (length helps him a little bit but still not very good yet)
13. Patty Mills (tiny and hasn't yet figured out how to compensate)

[Drom John]

Defensive Win Shares (Defense * playing time)
1.0 Duncan
0.5 Green
0.5 Leonard
0.4 Parker
0.4 Ginobili
0.3 Diaw
0.3 Splitter
0.3 Blair
0.3 Jackson
0.2 Neal
0.1 Bonner
0.1 Mills
0.1 De Colo
0.0 Joseph

Defensive Rating (per 100 posessions)
95 Duncan
98 Blair
98 Leonard
101 Jackson
102 Ginobili
103 Splitter
103 Green
104 Mills
104 Diaw
105 De Colo
105 Neal
106 Bonner
106 Parker
Inc. Joseph

Early sample size. Eyes lie. Bonner sucks. Bonner > Parker.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont think this spurs team will ever get back to the good old days of spurs championship basketball defensive orientated.....

we have the players, but they dont seem to be up the level we want them to play defensively....spurs should just concentrate playing elite defense for a couple of minutes during games or stoppages that could steal wins or limit the offensive production of the other team....

[TDMVPDPOY]

Defensive Win Shares (Defense * playing time)

0.4 Parker

Defensive Rating (per 100 posessions)
106 Parker


Early sample size. Eyes lie. Bonner sucks. Bonner > Parker.

defensive win shares and any defensive rating that has got anything to do with that scrub tony parker is immune on this forum....it doesnt help when the league is filled with very good pgs also who can get theirs against TP...but if you look at all the PGs in the league and check their defensive rating, they would also be at the bottom of the list with parker....

[bklynspursfan]

Very Good:
Duncan
Kawhi

Good:
Green

Bad:
Everyone else

Surely you can find a spot for Jackson in there...

[ElNono]

IMO:

Excellent:
Duncan

Above average:
Leonard
Jackson

Average:
Green
Manu
Tony
Diaw
Splitter
Joseph

Below Average:
De Colo
Mills
Bonner

Bad:
Neal
Blair

[Mel_13]

Slightly OT, but not threadworthy.

Using the defensive rating stat on basketball reference, the Spurs are currently tied for 4th in overall defense in the NBA and tied for 1st in the Western Conference. They are also T4 in the NBA and T1 in the WC in terms of opponents eFG%.

Still 21st in defensive rebounding, so plenty of room to improve.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2013.html

[Darius Bieber]

God Tier:
Bruce Bowen

Good:
Tim Duncan
Kawhi Leonard

Average:
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker

Below:
Everyone else

[timvp]

Defensive Win Shares (Defense * playing time)

Defensive Rating (per 100 posessions)

Both of those stats rely on rebounds, blocks and steals to judge defense. In the Spurs system (and, really, most systems), rebounds, blocks and steals don't even tell 1/10th of the story.

[superjames1992]

Matt Bonner is not a "poor" defender. He sucks ass at rebounding. I'll give you that, but he tends to be in the right place most of the time and has the system down; he just doesn't have the athleticism and/or length to be any more than "average".

[TD 21]

ya I have no idea what we were all thinking at the time..it was during Splitter's God-mode stretch IIRC..

ELITE
Tim Duncan (probably the best defender in the NBA so far)

Above average

Danny Green (in the "good" category vs. PGs)
Kawhi Leonard (sometimes average)
Tiago Splitter (sometimes average)

Average

Tony Parker (above average to good when he's focused)
Stephen Jackson (above average vs. SF/PF tweeners or small ball)
Manu Ginobili
Boris Diaw

Splitter is not above average. He just looks the part of someone who is and compared to the Bonner's and Blair's of the world, he may seem like it, but he's just not.

[timtonymanu]

To be fair, this thread was started around the time Splitter looked like a legit big and before Duncan's rejuvenation.

This season:

Great -
1. Duncan
2. Parker

Above Average -
3. Leonard
4. Jackson

Average -
5. Green
6. Manu
7. Diaw
8. Neal

Below Average -
9. Splitter
10. Blair

Bad -
11. Patty
12. Bonner

[therealtruth]

Splitter is not above average. He just looks the part of someone who is and compared to the Bonner's and Blair's of the world, he may seem like it, but he's just not.

When Splitter is locked in and uses his length to contest shots he's pretty good.

[Kidd K]

The ? Is this "1: Splitter" some kind of joke? Doens't belong anywhere near the Duncan. At no point in the season has he looked better than Duncan. Even during the one game he looked good on defense, Duncan already put in at least a handful of games of good/great defense.

Great defenders:
Duncan

Good defenders:
Leonard

Above average:
Jackson
Parker
Splitter (when angry)
Ginobili
Diaw (when against a shorter, slower type player)

Average:
Green (potential to be above average. He's close, but needs to perform better against elite level players)
Diaw (against anyone quick or especially big)
Splitter (plays soft D' most of the time. He's 7', why does he try to take charges from little guards instead of contest?)
Blair (his rebounding brings him up to average imo, he stopped gambling for steals as much too and it's helped.)

Below average:
Mills (has potential though. I like his quickness a lot.)
De Colo
Bonner

Terrible:
Neal


Neal is always getting left on screens, getting faked out of his shoes, and frequently leaving his man open. He's our worst defender in a lot of ways imo. No one else gets beaten by their assignment on the Spurs more than Neal does. Yes, including Bonner. He was our worst defender last year too.

[cd021]

1. Duncan

2. Leonard

3. Green

4. Jackson

5. Splitter

6. Manu

7. Parker

8. Blair

9 Diaw

10. Bonner

11. Joseph

12. Neal

13. Mills

14. James Anderson

15. De Colo