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  1. #276
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    No it wouldn't.

    That statement ignores why the Al Qaeda ideology has such traction in the muslim world.

    Realpolitic that supports immoral dictators is extremely short-sighted and ultimately self-defeating.

    Do you understand why the Al Qaeda ideology hates us? Explain it in your own words.
    GFY

  2. #277
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    IMHO the military held all the cards. If they had backed Mubarek he would still be in power IMHO. Once the US abandoned him they knew they needed to negotiate a power sharing partnership with the brotherhood.
    The military is backing Syrias leader.

    How is that scenario working out for Assad?

  3. #278
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The military is backing Syrias leader.

    How is that scenario working out for Assad?
    Last I checked he wasn't dead.

  4. #279
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I asked, respectfully and rationally, a question that you could easily answer.

    If all you have is expletives to support your ideas, what do you think that says about how valid they are?

  5. #280
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Last I checked he wasn't dead.
    The answer is:

    The military would not have been able to counter the overwhelming opposition, without a civil war.

    Since the military command structure was not made up of a different ethnic group, as it was in Syrias case, it would have not have been possible to get the army to actually crack down on their fellow Egyptians.

    The military command chose between a civil war, and fulfilling its normal societal role in that country (do some background reading on this, it is interesting). It was an easy call, and had almost nothing to do with what the US did or didn't want. They knew we need them too badly and would not cut off aid no matter what they did. They were free to make their own call.

  6. #281
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How is that working for Assad?

    Last I checked he wasn't dead.
    Yet.

    His military bases are being abandoned and overrun by rebels. He will not last much longer, as the rebels get better armed, and his army deserts him because even the common soldier sees the writing on the wall at this point.

    He will end up as Ghadaffi did, if he doesn't take Hitler's out.

  7. #282
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I asked, respectfully and rationally, a question that you could easily answer.

    If all you have is expletives to support your ideas, what do you think that says about how valid they are?
    I'm not going to write a ing dissertation on mideast relations just because you demand it.

  8. #283
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    With Egypt, doing nothing put the US on the right side of history in the region for once.

    Given the fact that a lot of our problems around there came from installing and/or propping up dictators, I'm fine with trying something different. We'll have to wait some years to see if the result is any different.
    Siding with, and propping up dictators is one of the prime stated reasons in all of Al Qaeda's stated manifestos. The US then becomes identified with the hated dicatators, and that is why you get 9-11 style mass attacks on Westerners.

    Propping them up harms our long term interests far more, as the dictators are temporary, but the resentment will outlive them long long after they are dead.

    If Cosmic Cowboy ever ventured far enough from Fox news to actually read what these people say about their own motives and agenda, he would know that.

    Thinking that propping up such dictators is in our best interest is only possible if you are sadly ignorant of who/what the Al Qaeda brand generally is, IMO.

  9. #284
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Siding with, and propping up dictators is one of the prime stated reasons in all of Al Qaeda's stated manifestos. The US then becomes identified with the hated dicatators, and that is why you get 9-11 style mass attacks on Westerners.

    Propping them up harms our long term interests far more, as the dictators are temporary, but the resentment will outlive them long long after they are dead.

    If Cosmic Cowboy ever ventured far enough from Fox news to actually read what these people say about their own motives and agenda, he would know that.

    Thinking that propping up such dictators is in our best interest is only possible if you are sadly ignorant of who/what the Al Qaeda brand generally is, IMO.
    I think you are assigning something approaching reason to AQ's motivations. As a group, AQ is not bound by nor operates under rule of reason.

  10. #285
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Siding with, and propping up dictators is one of the prime stated reasons in all of Al Qaeda's stated manifestos. The US then becomes identified with the hated dicatators, and that is why you get 9-11 style mass attacks on Westerners.

    Propping them up harms our long term interests far more, as the dictators are temporary, but the resentment will outlive them long long after they are dead.

    If Cosmic Cowboy ever ventured far enough from Fox news to actually read what these people say about their own motives and agenda, he would know that.

    Thinking that propping up such dictators is in our best interest is only possible if you are sadly ignorant of who/what the Al Qaeda brand generally is, IMO.
    I thought AQ hated us because of our freedoms...

  11. #286
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I'm not going to write a ing dissertation on mideast relations just because you demand it.
    That is because you can't.

    If you don't want to admit it, that is your business I guess, but don't ask me to support policy ideas based on your ignorance.

    I know how and why the things you say are wrong, can spell that out, and can provide a few sources if you want to improve your understanding. It is human to push back against information that goes against existing understanding, even if that information is valid and true.

    If you want to learn a bit more, I can provide you some background.

  12. #287
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    So RG wants to throw Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and the UAE under the Al Qaeda bus?

  13. #288
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    That is because you can't.

    If you don't want to admit it, that is your business I guess, but don't ask me to support policy ideas based on your ignorance.

    I know how and why the things you say are wrong, can spell that out, and can provide a few sources if you want to improve your understanding. It is human to push back against information that goes against existing understanding, even if that information is valid and true.

    If you want to learn a bit more, I can provide you some background.


    GFY

  14. #289
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    BTW, where was Obama's moral outrage when Bahrain was cracking heads on their protestors?

  15. #290
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I think you are assigning something approaching reason to AQ's motivations. As a group, AQ is not bound by nor operates under rule of reason.
    I am not assigning them reason.

    I am assigning them honesty, because there is no indication they are lying about why they hate us, and do what they do.

    Crazy does prohibit honesty, or even semi-logical reasoning, based on crazy delusions. Even schizophrenics act with a certain internal logic, however misguided.

  16. #291
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    @ RandomGuy, the Al Qaeda apologist.

  17. #292
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    If you wish. It was well meant, and freely given. I like to read up on this, and seek as much information as possible.

  18. #293
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    So RG wants to throw Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and the UAE under the Al Qaeda bus?
    Moving from expletives to strawmen.

    Be my guest. Let me know when you get tired of fighting ideas and opinions I don't have.

  19. #294
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    @ RandomGuy, the Al Qaeda apologist.
    Moving from expletives to strawmen.

    Be my guest. Let me know when you get tired of fighting ideas and opinions I don't have. Part 2

  20. #295
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    If you wish. It was well meant, and freely given. I like to read up on this, and seek as much information as possible.
    The reason I resent the out of you bashing me on the middle east is that I have stated over and over that IMHO we have no ing business being over there and aren't accomplishing a damn thing but blowing trillions of dollars and getting a lot of people killed. Your accusations of me being a Fox news clone are outrageous lies.

  21. #296
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The reason I resent the out of you bashing me on the middle east is that I have stated over and over that IMHO we have no ing business being over there and aren't accomplishing a damn thing but blowing trillions of dollars and getting a lot of people killed. Your accusations of me being a Fox news clone are outrageous lies.
    Alright then. I apologize, and will refrain from saying it in the future.

    I am of the opinion we should pull back as well, for the most part. We still have interests there, so it is not quite easy to simply walk away though.

  22. #297
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Maddow posited last night that the only reason they are giving ambassador rice trouble is so that Kerry will get the job thereby resigning his senate seat which scott Brown could theoretically fill giving the Rs a seat back in the senate. I thought it was a little conspiratorial at the time, but now that multiple senators have come out in favor of Kerry for SoS, I have to say there may be something to it.

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-senat...ating-process/

  23. #298
    Believe.
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    I'm not going to write a ing dissertation on mideast relations just because you demand it.
    He didn't ask for that. He just asked for you to tell what you thought created the anti-American Muslim fundamentalst sentiment against the US. I could do that in about a paragraph but heaven forbid you actually answer thoughtfully or intelligently when you can instead cling to what you want to believe.

  24. #299
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Maddow posited last night that the only reason they are giving ambassador rice trouble is so that Kerry will get the job thereby resigning his senate seat which scott Brown could theoretically fill giving the Rs a seat back in the senate. I thought it was a little conspiratorial at the time, but now that multiple senators have come out in favor of Kerry for SoS, I have to say there may be something to it.

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-senat...ating-process/
    If that were the case, Obama would simply not nominate Kerry.

    Not exactly an effective ploy, if true.

  25. #300
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    If that were the case, Obama would simply not nominate Kerry.

    Not exactly an effective ploy, if true.
    Hmm? They want Kerry as they want his seat in The senate. They don't want Rice so they are smearing her credibility.

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