@ Claiming small sample WS48 as sign of value. DeJuan Blair had possibly the highest WS48 in the history of Spurs playoff basketball last season and anyone with common sense could tell you that's meaningless.
WS48, as you might now, chiefly looks at eFG% and turnovers. In a small sample size, one extra turnover or a meaningless three-pointer can have a huge effect.
I don't even really like WS48 over the course of a whole season, tbh. It's painfully antiquated at this point.
Misremembering something isn't the same as not knowing the difference, dumbass.Says the person who doesn't know the difference between win share and APM.
Statistically he is, but I understand that you don't trust things you don't understand. And truthfully, that's a good thing -- you shouldn't. But you should educate yourself, imo.
Very lame.
I didn't claim that.
Edit: Not sure if you remember our past dealings, but I feel like the I'm the poster child of paying attention to sample size.
Learn from your one piece of wisdom.
stat arguments are wack... bonner came in changed the tide ...
I don't think there is much wrong about advanced stats. As Timvp points out many times, Bonner's advanced stats in regular season are quite good, but those stats in playoffs are very bad. This corroborates that Bonner is a asset in regular season and a liability in playoffs. So it's Bonner the player who disappoints during playoffs, but those stats themselves, at least in Bonner's case, is actually proved right.
Of course, you might rebut Hollinger's method of using advanced stats as a predictor, as Bonner proves that prior good stats does not necessarily bode well for the future, or in big games. But those advance stats are still good tools to gauge players' contributions to already-played games.
Matt's problem, some playing time related, is he's out of position more often than not and he has happy feet, plus he doesn't get his hands up (happy hands too) enough. Otherwise, he's all he can be.
Matt Bonner playoff minutes: 595
Matt Bonner regular season minutes: 10,768
I don't think we learn much at all from his playoff stats. Not enough info.
Edit: That's not entirely true... we learn something. My guess is the truth lies somewhere between the extremes: that his expected future playoff performance is worse than his regular season performance, but definitely not to the degree that it has been historically. I further theorize that the dropoff is due to the slightly different style of play in the playoffs, and has absolutely nothing to do with "choking."
Edit2: Wizard right there below me.
Though it's true Bonner isn't effective in the playoffs, it's not that Bonner changes. It's that teams play him differently. I wouldn't say he disappoints (anyone disappointed in Bonner by now really has short term memory). You can no more be disappointed in Bonner than you can be in a car that you know only runs well in the winter and overheats in the summer. You either spend money to get better or you live with it.
I personally prefer WP48, and Timmy D has a WP48 >.300. That's GOAT level.
WS48, as you might now, chiefly looks at eFG% and turnovers. In a small sample size, one extra turnover or a meaningless three-pointer can have a huge effect.
I don't even really like WS48 over the course of a whole season, tbh. It's painfully antiquated at this point.
So we learn that you are another lame Bonner-troll. How original.
Matt Bonner playing stout defense in the paint is not news. He's not athletic but he pushes his weight and muscles around or did anybody not notice that the guy is pumped.
That Matt Bonner can be enormously effective in stretches is not a question. We've all seen him do it. During those times, he doesn't even have to make the shots he takes to help the offense, and he doesn't even have to attempt shots if teams are respecting his offense and not victimizing him on defense. The key to my first sentence, howevuh, is "in stretches". There comes a point where teams take advantage of his slow release and predictable dribble moves, and where they also victimize him in the post, taking advantage of his lack of length and inability to challenge a shot without fouling. I'm glad the Spurs could capitalize on the Grizzlies' neglecting to do that in a regular-season game. But anyone that's watched him over the years knows the length of the shift is pushing it in a close game where he's getting posted up. Perhaps it was necessary since the other guys put in so many minutes against Miami. Time will tell.
Big 4 reunited
Good point. I've never been able to tell. He's certainly got a solid build, and he's certainly not fat, but he's got that kind of in-between build, where it's hard to say. I'm saying this in the context of an NBA player of course, obviously he's more swole than the general population.
Here he is lookin' thick, solid, tight. No . Well.... maybe a little.
Good takes here. I would call Popovich's heavy reliance on Bonner last night an example of situational coaching genius, or perhaps less charitably a case of him thinking "WTF do I do now, might as well go with Bonner/Mills/Ginobili because Diaw/Green/Blair/Neal are sucking horribly, it couldn't be worse, and I don't have Jackson to throw in there." And, improbably, it worked. As a bonus it somehow woke up Neal, and gave Tony and Tim enough rest to come in and roll over the obviously tired Grizz on a back2back in the late 4Q and OT.
IMO Bonner was an absolute stud last night. Check out his battling on the defensive boards and bodying up Z-Bo. It was a freaking cage fight under there. And the way the refs were calling the game, that was exactly what was needed. Not to mention a couple of badly needed 3s tossed in with large balls attached to their flight.
For those who say "yeah but his effectiveness falls off in the playoffs", um, DUH. That wasn't a playoff game.
Fools gold. The sample size is huge at this point - Boner is worthless in the playoffs. Just get better playing without him
It's amazing when you have to earn minutes sometimes you actually play better.
matt bonner has proven..............that the fkn turd cant shoot with a hand in his face...
Your average NBA player's shooting % drops off significantly when the defender gets a hand up. Those that can shoot effectively against defensive challenges are called All-Stars, which Bonner certainly is not.
He takes a lot of crap on this forum for passing up "open" shots (open in quotes because he, like everybody else in the NBA, almost never passes up a truly open shot), but I'm happy with his shot selection. If you're getting challenged and you aren't confident you can shoot a good percentage, pull it down and try for a better opportunity. Why force it? Just my opinion.
Bonner has always been an serviceable RS player. Hopefully, Pop has already figured that and won't be playing Bonner in the playoffs.
Too bad he won't do this later in the year and the playoffs to win the game, I wish he would for once. This Bonner ish is tired, he does this early at times yes, but later on it's a borken record.
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