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I've placed my vote. I chose "No, he's the 4th option." For the record, votes are not made public so don't feel embarrassed to vote!
Yes, he's the 1st option
Yes, he's the 2nd option
Yes, he's the 3rd option
No, he's the 4th option
No, he's the 5th option
No, he's the 6th option
No, he's the 7th option
No, he's the 8th option
No, he's the 9th option
No, he's the 10th option or worse
Looking at the matter objectively, I would have to say no imhotbh.
Let's break down the Spurs by FGA per game:
1. Tony Parker = 14.7
2. Tim Duncan = 13.9
3. Gary Neal = 9.7
4. Manu Ginobili = 9.4
5. Danny Green = 8.7
6. Kawhi Leonard = 7.9
7. Stephen Jackson = 7.0
8. Tiago Splitter = 5.7
9. Dejuan Blair = 5.6
10. Patrick Mills = 5.0
11. Boris Diaw = 3.8
12. Matt Bonner = 3.6
13. Nando De Colo = 3.1
14. Cory Joseph = 2.7
15. James Anderson = 2.0
"
Never mind the fact that limited minutes is a concern in and of itself if you're going to try and argue that Manu is a top 3 option on this team, but good point nonetheless! Let's look at FGA per 36 minutes:
1. Tony Parker = 16.6
2. Tim Duncan = 16.5
3. Gary Neal = 14.4
4. Manu Ginobili = 14.2
5. Patrick Mills = 14.1
6. DeJuan Blair = 11.6
7. Cory Joseph = 11.0
8. Stephen Jackson = 10.9
9. Tiago Splitter = 10.8
10. Danny Green = 10.7
11. Kawhi Leonard = 9.8
12. Matt Bonner = 9.7
13. Nando De Colo = 9.1
14. James Anderson = 7.0
15. Boris Diaw = 5.7 <---I knew Boris had too much of a "pass first" mentality (much to the chagrin of the Spurs F.O. and Spurs' fans alike), but god damn
"
Sure!
Points per 36 minutes:
1. Tim Duncan = 21.5
2. Tony Parker = 20.8
3. Tiago Splitter = 17.6
4. Manu Ginobili = 17.5
Total win shares:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Tony Parker
3. Tiago Splitter
4. Boris Diaw
5. Manu Ginobili
Win Shares per 48 minutes:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Tiago Splitter
3. Tony Parker
4. James Anderson
5. Manu Ginobili
PER:
1. Tim Duncan = 26.4
2. Tony Parker = 22.2
3. Tiago Splitter = 21.4
4. Manu Ginobili = 17.8
Based on the data quite honestly I have to say it looks like Manu is at best the 4th option on our team. What say you, Spurs talk?
Is Manu Ginobili a top 3 option on our team?
I've placed my vote. I chose "No, he's the 4th option." For the record, votes are not made public so don't feel embarrassed to vote!
He has the #3 usage rate on the team..
He's having a much better season than Neal, despite struggling by his personal standards..
He is clearly the #3 option on the team, it's a fact..if you're asking whether he has been the third best player on the team this year, it's arguable, but he's clearly the #3 go-to guy..
You know this is true, but he's awwwwfully close to the likes of Gary Neal (USG% = 22.2, tied for rank 4) and Patrick Mills (USG% = 22.2, tied for rank 4) with a USG% of 24.2.
He will be a top 3 option in the playoffs. All that matters.
advanced stats exposing splitter as the 3rd best player
ginobili needs to be saved til the end of games to make drives and get to the line like the raptors game
rather see leonard/splitter get more integrated into the offense
neal can shoot as long as hes open
boris only really needs around 9 ppg and take advantages of mismatches in the post
he could get that on about 7 shots a game
if he could do that i would be happy
The differential between #4(Neal) and Ginobili is virtually the same as the usage differential between Ginobili and #1(Parker)..
Mills's usage is irrelevant, he barely gets on the court..
And by the way, if you want to go by usage rate on the team to argue options, would you also be willing to argue that Cory Joseph is a higher option on offense than Tiago Splitter? Because according to usage rate, he is-
Spurs by usage rate:
1. Tony Parker = 26.4
2. Tim Duncan = 25.9
3. Manu Ginobili = 24.2
4. Gary Neal = 22.2
5. Patrick Mills = 22.2
6. Cory Joseph = 20.4
7. Tiago Splitter = 19.9
8. Dejuan Blair = 19.4
9. Stephen Jackson = 18.1
10. Nando de Colo = 17.5
11. Kawhi Leonard = 16.7
12. Danny Green = 15.6
13. Matt Bonner = 13.6
14. James Anderson = 13.2
15. Boris Diaw = 10.1
Is James Anderson higher on the "offensive options" hierarchy than Boris Diaw, tbh
Spurs ranked by minutes per game, tbh:
1. Tony Parker = 31.9
2. Tim Duncan = 30.3
3. Danny Green = 29.2
4. Kawhi Leonard = 28.9
5. Gary Neal = 24.3
6. Manu Ginobili = 23.9
You need to factor minutes played with usage rate, buddy..
Manu has been playing long enough to know the marathon of the season. He also knows his body the best and how far he can push it. Do you think he's playing @ his full capability right now?? If he can stay healthy, come playoff time he will be top 3 option. This is something we all know.
Aww, I'm making buddies on the internet now
pretty much, plus he doesn't have to shoot a lot... just have to create offense... right now he's dipped a bit from the high PER he had in the last few seasons, but it's early anyways...
I voted 4th option before I read OP's post. It's been that kind if year so far for Manu, not gonna be surprised when he's the Argentinian Bball God later in the season.
so how did that work out for him last season in the playoffs
Yes, he's the 1st option.
worked out pretty well. we were 2 games from the finals. you dont remember?
i guess working out well now means having his worst playoffs since his rookie season
he played better in the 2011 playoffs
and that was with 1 hand
Splitter number #9 in FGA per 36/#8 in FGA per game/#7 by usage rate/ #9 in minutes per game, AND STILL top 3 in PER/win shares/points per 36.Looking at the matter objectively, I would have to say no imhotbh.
Let's break down the Spurs by FGA per game:
1. Tony Parker = 14.7
2. Tim Duncan = 13.9
3. Gary Neal = 9.7
4. Manu Ginobili = 9.4
5. Danny Green = 8.7
6. Kawhi Leonard = 7.9
7. Stephen Jackson = 7.0
8. Tiago Splitter = 5.7
9. Dejuan Blair = 5.6
10. Patrick Mills = 5.0
11. Boris Diaw = 3.8
12. Matt Bonner = 3.6
13. Nando De Colo = 3.1
14. Cory Joseph = 2.7
15. James Anderson = 2.0
"
Never mind the fact that limited minutes is a concern in and of itself if you're going to try and argue that Manu is a top 3 option on this team, but good point nonetheless! Let's look at FGA per 36 minutes:
1. Tony Parker = 16.6
2. Tim Duncan = 16.5
3. Gary Neal = 14.4
4. Manu Ginobili = 14.2
5. Patrick Mills = 14.1
6. DeJuan Blair = 11.6
7. Cory Joseph = 11.0
8. Stephen Jackson = 10.9
9. Tiago Splitter = 10.8
Points per 36 minutes:
1. Tim Duncan = 21.5
2. Tony Parker = 20.8
3. Tiago Splitter = 17.6
4. Manu Ginobili = 17.5
Total win shares:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Tony Parker
3. Tiago Splitter
4. Boris Diaw
5. Manu Ginobili
Win Shares per 48 minutes:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Tiago Splitter
3. Tony Parker
4. James Anderson
5. Manu Ginobili
PER:
1. Tim Duncan = 26.4
2. Tony Parker = 22.2
3. Tiago Splitter = 21.4
4. Manu Ginobili = 17.8
Splitter SHOULD get MORE minutes
Last edited by Brunodf; 12-10-2012 at 12:50 AM.
Ok then, who would you suggest have the ball in their hands over Manu in the WCF?
Shows how great of a scorer Patty is off the bench.
I didnt say someone else should have the ball over manu
he just needs to play better and show he can actually string together some decent games
right now hes a trainwreck
throwing the ball into stands
bricking all his 3s, most of which are from bad shot selection
also not getting to the rim as much
passing has become predictable and he turns it over when he gets trapped
manu 1 or 2 season ago would still be splitting the traps and getting to the rim
until he shows he can do that leonard should get more plays called for him
his mid range game looks good and he could probably post up smaller players
splitter also had the offense run through him while he played for brazil so he could be a more consistent offensive option then just a pick and roll player
so then you agree he is a top 3 option on offense?
I've been saying this since he got here tbh. What happened with Splitter's minutes was infuriating to say the least...Especially after the Memphis series.
Now that Pop is going to him when the starters aren't doing well, is playing him with TD regardless of the matchups, and is also giving him a longer leash imo, I'm actually a pretty happy fan this year. The big rotation's been pretty decent with TD/Diaw/Splitter taking most of the minutes. Especially now that Bonner hasn't really been playing (although I still don't like Blair starting). But anyway, I'm still thinking Pop should bump him up to around 30 minutes/game. Give Splitter minutes every game regardless of how he does and he'll eventually perform.
He's going to be rather expensive in the offseason if he keeps this up though.
When Jax and Leonard get back, I actually think Blair and Patty should be the first ones losing minutes. And Bonner. Guys like De Colo, Splitter, and even Anderson have played well and I'm just not convinced that Patty deserves regular minutes over some of these other players when Neal's available to play that "instant offense" role. Plus we already have TP as well...
At the moment De Colo is providing a nice change of pace with the faster tempo he pushes and the pass-first style of play even if his shooting is the cause of that. I think this causes problems for opponents because it's like they have to game plan for two different Spurs teams. Compared to the other guards Patty doesn't really bring anything extra to the table. For that reason I think he needs to (continue to) be the odd man out when our SF rotation comes back.
Last edited by TheSkeptic; 12-10-2012 at 01:49 AM. Reason: extra text
Last time I checked he is still one of only 3 guys on the team that can create his own offense. So yes.
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