Michigan to become a right to work state?

[CosmicCowboy]

Like all employees, union employees range from excellent to ty. Without right to work the union negotiates an "average" salary with the employer and then pays all the workers the same.

I'm not saying the stereotypical ty union employee is gonna like "right to work".

It allows the talented and motivated employees to negotiate higher than "average" salaries and benefits and leaves the union to negotiate the new "average" for the slug employees that are left at the next contract renewal.

[CosmicCowboy]

Resorting to personal insults means you've lost the argument. But besides that, it seems to me that you refuse to accept the freedom of contract between employer and employee. If employers and employees feel a closed shop arrangement is to their mutual benefit, they should have the freedom to negotiate such agreements. The government should respect freedom of contract.

I'm not losing the argument, I'm just stating the obvious that you are ing stupid. I have already said twice that the employer can choose to have a closed shop in a right to work state if he wants. It's just that now he has the right to choose a mixed shop.

[DarrinS]

Like all employees, union employees range from excellent to ty. Without right to work the union negotiates an "average" salary with the employer and then pays all the workers the same.

I'm not saying the stereotypical ty union employee is gonna like "right to work".

It allows the talented and motivated employees to negotiate higher than "average" salaries and benefits and leaves the union to negotiate the new "average" for the slug employees that are left at the next contract renewal.

This is why unions would never appeal to the most talented people in their fields.

[Winehole23]

presumably the same holds for firefighters and police, right?

[Th'Pusher]

presumably the same holds for firefighters and police, right?

Right? What is the case for firefighters and police being excluded?

[boutons_deux]

Right? What is the case for firefighters and police being excluded?

The Repug thug politicians and their 1% financers need fire and police services. And I bet fire/police vote mostly Repug, anyway.

[boutons_deux]

Jon Stewart Slams Orwellian 'Right-to-Work'

In the segment below, Stewart skewered the Orwellian language, noting that the law is really about the right of corporations to work around unions.


http://www.alternet.org/jon-stewart-...ian-right-work

[TeyshaBlue]

I see that the legislation does ban compulsory union membership. "If employers choose to conclude union-shop contracts with unions, what gives the legislature the right to interfere?"

I think it's a pretty straight forward libertarian argument. I think employers and employees are better equipped to negotiate private contracts for mutual benefit than remote legislators.
Was I condescending to you? I don't think I was, so your aggro is more than a bit bizaare.

It does nothing to ban union membership. It simply makes it a choice, not compulsory for employment. Your argument is completely backwards. Prior to this, there was no choice whatsoever. If you wanted to work you were forced to join a union.

[boutons_deux]

Myths And Facts About "Right-To-Work" Laws

Are workers in states without right-to-work laws forced to join unions?

Do right-to-work laws lead to higher wages and benefits?

Will right-to-work laws lead to lower unemployment in states that adopt them?

Do right-to-work laws protect workers from supporting political activities they disagree with?




http://mediamatters.org/research/201...rk-laws/191810

[TeyshaBlue]

The Repug thug politicians and their 1% financers need fire and police services. And I bet fire/police vote mostly Repug, anyway.

Ever encountered the concept of civil services?

Civil services. Retail/Trad employment. One of these things is not like the other one.

[TeyshaBlue]

Myths And Facts About "Right-To-Work" Laws

Are workers in states without right-to-work laws forced to join unions?

Do right-to-work laws lead to higher wages and benefits?

Will right-to-work laws lead to lower unemployment in states that adopt them?

Do right-to-work laws protect workers from supporting political activities they disagree with?




http://mediamatters.org/research/201...rk-laws/191810

lol...boutons posts link from moonbat blog that references "studies" from moonbat orgs.

Yet, he'll lambast Heritage.

Irony. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

[Th'Pusher]

The Repug thug politicians and their 1% financers need fire and police services. And I bet fire/police vote mostly Repug, anyway.

But why does collective bargaining make sense for police and fire, but not for other union jobs? Wouldn't police and firemen prefer to negotiate with their employer directly based on individual performance?

[Wild Cobra]

When WC says this, it's code for, "You need to start getting your information from Politico and Fox News!"

I don't get my news from either. Are they good sources?

[Wild Cobra]

I'd bet my left testicle you just made this up and don't have any factual evidence backing it.

I can back it up.

Ready to lose it?

[Wild Cobra]

employees who don't pay union contributions should not be included in any benefits the union obtains.

I'd go for that. That means I can individually bargain for my benefits, and get better ones than the union members!

[Wild Cobra]

Obviously there's a bajillion different factors that affect per capita income and cost of living that have nothing to do with right to work or closed shop. So borrowing the Mythbusters standard, we can't give WC's myth a "CONFIRMED", but we can give it a "PLAUSIBLE".

LOL...

$38,516 for right to work states and $37,400 for closed shop states.

Anyone see data that disagrees with this?

CG did what two studies did.

[Th'Pusher]

If this is nothing more than providing workers a choice? Why are police and fire being carve out of such a great deal? Why is it compulsory they continue to pay union dues? Can a red teamer give me at least a canned answer?

[CosmicCowboy]

If this is nothing more than providing workers a choice? Why are police and fire being carve out of such a great deal? Why is it compulsory they continue to pay union dues? Can a red teamer give me at least a canned answer?

My guess is the difference between public and private employer. Plus, they may have made the political calculation that in order to get the bill passed they didn't need the police and fire unions lobbying against it.

[Th'Pusher]

My guess is the difference between public and private employer. Plus, they may have made the political calculation that in order to get the bill passed they didn't need the police and fire unions lobbying against it.

Why are unions lobbying against choice? Now they get to choose whether or not they pay union dues? Why are they so upset?

[Wild Cobra]

Why are unions lobbying against choice? Now they get to choose whether or not they pay union dues? Why are they so upset?

It's so funny. Liberals and unions go pretty much hand-in-hand, and they claim to be all about choice.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why are unions lobbying against choice? Now they get to choose whether or not they pay union dues? Why are they so upset?

Are you really that stupid?

[Th'Pusher]

Are you really that stupid?

No. But you're making it out to be some great deal for the workers. Now they have a choice? If it's such a great deal for the worker as you seem to imply, why are they so upset?

[DarrinS]

No. But you're making it out to be some great deal for the workers. Now they have a choice? If it's such a great deal for the worker as you seem to imply, why are they so upset?

really?

[Th'Pusher]

really?

Yes. Explain to me why a union worker would be upset about having the choice of whether or not he has to be a member of said union? CC and governor Snyder seem to think this is all about offering workers a choice. If that is the case, then why are they so upset? Do you know Darrin?

[CosmicCowboy]

No. But you're making it out to be some great deal for the workers. Now they have a choice? If it's such a great deal for the worker as you seem to imply, why are they so upset?

LOL at being too stupid to understand the difference between union members and union management. No union member dues, no union management.