Shooting at elementary school

[TeyshaBlue]

I dont recall tanks and aircraft s ing college students on protest. Thus, my point.

Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

[TeyshaBlue]

Don't anybody mind TB, he is a bit slow from actively engaging BD.... Everybody pity him.

YOU LIE! GFY!

[Drachen]

Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

Dude that song would last forever, good thing they went with Safety Dance instead.

[DarkReign]

ok. well yall were talking about buying the guns, and I like it when people offer me deals that are topical (i.e. I was talking about buying one), so there ya go.

Oh no, I got what you were saying. I was just offering advice on expected cost of an AR15. The lower receiver is probably the least complex portion of the rifle outside the butt stock (and even those can get pretty fancy).

[Drachen]

YOU LIE! GFY!

See children, it's sad, but let that be a warning to you. Like Icarus' opposite, TB flew too far away from the sun and slowed down

[DarkReign]

Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

I understand where you (and your argument) are coming from and ultimately, you, Scott and Drachen are correct. If the government decided to bring the full brunt of the military down upon its citizens in revolt, all the automatics on the planet wouldnt make one f-ing bit of difference.

I however dont believe the government would ever do it. I am quite sure they would actively kill hundreds if not thousands of rebels using all sorts of mechanized equipment and aircraft, but nothing even remotely like what is brought to bear in Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam. They would make Kent State a footnote in government-citizen atrocities the very first day. The difference however would be the college students shooting back.

With that said, I am done with this Dystopian, open revolt conversation. Its really worthless to think about as it will never happen.

[Drachen]

doppelbock

[Drachen]

Oh no, I got what you were saying. I was just offering advice on expected cost of an AR15. The lower receiver is probably the least complex portion of the rifle outside the butt stock (and even those can get pretty fancy).

Ok cool, well that is for someone else. If I buy a gun, it will likely be a hunting rifle, or a handgun. I am overall not for having guns myself. I want a hunting rifle for the aforementioned practical purposes, but would rather just borrow one from my buddies who hunt who have multiple guns. The handgun is more for the fact that I am nervous about all of these prepper types. I feel like there are more people stockpiling guns because they are afraid of something going down. I feel like all of those stockpiles are just more and more hay in the tinderbox and an innocuous spark is going to set it off (whereas it usually wouldn't ). I basically feel like this will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[DarkReign]

Ok cool, well that is for someone else. If I buy a gun, it will likely be a hunting rifle, or a handgun. I am overall not for having guns myself. I want a hunting rifle for the aforementioned practical purposes, but would rather just borrow one from my buddies who hunt who have multiple guns. The handgun is more for the fact that I am nervous about all of these prepper types. I feel like there are more people stockpiling guns because they are afraid of something going down. I feel like all of those stockpiles are just more and more hay in the tinderbox and an innocuous spark is going to set it off (whereas it usually wouldn't ). I basically feel like this will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

I must have missed the sarcasm then. No biggie. Handguns are nice, just get +P rounds and you really cant go wrong with caliber. Just practice shooting...a lot. Handguns are terribly inaccurate in the hands of a beginner, even at point blank.

[Drachen]

I must have missed the sarcasm then. No biggie. Handguns are nice, just get +P rounds and you really cant go wrong with caliber. Just practice shooting...a lot. Handguns are terribly inaccurate in the hands of a beginner, even at point blank.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

tl;dr: Yall wanted to buy a gun, I was just trying to help out. I don't want to buy one of those guns, but have some gun needs that I am not terribly comfortable with.

So what you are telling me is that bad guys in movies (especially Rambo) are all beginners? LOL

[spursncowboys]

, I will take your kills, LOL. A good carnitas made from pork shoulder is awesome.

Sounds like a deal. Next time I'm in SA I'll kill it, you grill it

[ChumpDumper]

Don't know if this is at all practical, or if kids would do it, but if they were taught to, on a signal, run en mass toward the gunman - he would, first, have to think fast (if he wants to off himself, better get on with it; 400 screaming elementary school kids are going to be on you in less than 3 seconds) - at the very least he won't get to put the gun a few inches from a skull an sqeeze! He certainly wouldn't kill 27.

wut

[ElNono]

Look at it from the possible angles. Had the shooter continued, I'm reasonable sure this guy would have snipped him down. If such laws are implemented to take that away from us, then it makes that possibility impossible.

Or he could've shot an innocent bystander. Or gotten killed by the shooter. Or both. Those are all 'possible angles'.

[SA210]

14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots armed intruder while babysitting siblings


http://www.examiner.com/article/14-y...tting-siblings

[spursncowboys]

It doesn't really matter what he used to kill those kids. Bushmaster, sig 9mm, whatever...In the eyes of the media and general public he used this:
I hate when people put a gangster grip and short barrel on the 240B

[scott]

Its a silly train of thought to even entertain, really, but we went there...

Flashpoint: Civil Unrest. Open revolt in multiple American regions.

The chances of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens is iffy at best. Unless it was open war (ie Civil War, two sides divided by secession), the government is not going to wholesale slaughter their own people.

Assuming youre both right and the government did use the full brunt of their military against their own citizens, then nothing would matter anymore anyway. You would no longer call yourself American or care who lived and died at that point. You would be no better than the Russian peasants living under the Tzars or Stalin. The war was lost before it even started.

I agree the idea of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens as iffy at best. I also think the idea that the citizenry would be pitted against the government insofar as it needs assault rifles to be iffy at best.

[scott]

I understand where you (and your argument) are coming from and ultimately, you, Scott and Drachen are correct. If the government decided to bring the full brunt of the military down upon its citizens in revolt, all the automatics on the planet wouldnt make one f-ing bit of difference.

I however dont believe the government would ever do it. I am quite sure they would actively kill hundreds if not thousands of rebels using all sorts of mechanized equipment and aircraft, but nothing even remotely like what is brought to bear in Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam. They would make Kent State a footnote in government-citizen atrocities the very first day. The difference however would be the college students shooting back.

With that said, I am done with this Dystopian, open revolt conversation. Its really worthless to think about as it will never happen.

+1

[Shastafarian]

14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots armed intruder while babysitting siblings


http://www.examiner.com/article/14-y...tting-siblings

I bet that kid is up to date on his vaccines.

[ChumpDumper]

I bet that kid is up to date on his vaccines.

lol

The actual story is a little different. Still justifiable -- I don't know what SA210 is arguing.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...wice-abrk.html

[Shastafarian]

I would guess he's using it to show how great guns can be! But for every story of fending off an intruder with a gun, I'm sure there are as many of accidental shootings that kill innocent people.

[Warlord23]

The problem with an armed populace is where do you draw the line. I could argue that I like owning a tank or a rocket launcher or hand grenades, and that I like practicing with them on my ranch in a completely safe way where they would harm no human, animal or plant life. Also, they would be undeniably useful in civil war / anarchy / UN invasion scenarios.

The principle that makes most sense is to arm the citizen enough that he may protect himself in reasonably likely scenarios (e.g. using a handgun vs an armed robber). A gun with a high-capacity clip that is capable of killing 30 people inside a minute ... I'm having trouble seeing reasonably likely scenarios where that type of weapon would be a must-have.

[spursncowboys]

I would guess he's using it to show how great guns can be! But for every story of fending off an intruder with a gun, I'm sure there are as many of accidental shootings that kill innocent people.

Are you suggesting that we need to protect people from themselves by not letting them own weapons? So you are for drug laws too? criminalize caffeine, tobacco, sugar, acidic foods and drinks, vehicles, knives, electicity, water, video games, movies, to name a few?

[spursncowboys]

The problem with an armed populace is where do you draw the line. I could argue that I like owning a tank or a rocket launcher or hand grenades, and that I like practicing with them on my ranch in a completely safe way where they would harm no human, animal or plant life. Also, they would be undeniably useful in civil war / anarchy / UN invasion scenarios.

The principle that makes most sense is to arm the citizen enough that he may protect himself in reasonably likely scenarios (e.g. using a handgun vs an armed robber). A gun with a high-capacity clip that is capable of killing 30 people inside a minute ... I'm having trouble seeing reasonably likely scenarios where that type of weapon would be a must-have.

Can you afford a tank?

I do agree that the main reason I am armed is for when I have to run up to the store when most of the people out are drunk or I'm in a bad neighborhood. The main reason is if a worst case scenario happens at my house, I don't want to sit and wait for the police. Hoping they beat their avg 45 min response time. In my life, I've gotten in the car and drove to the hospital rather than wait for an ambulance.

[Shastafarian]

Are you suggesting that we need to protect people from themselves by not letting them own weapons? So you are for drug laws too? criminalize caffeine, tobacco, sugar, acidic foods and drinks, vehicles, knives, electicity, water, video games, movies, to name a few?

I was merely pointing out his example is irrelevant. Also kudos on having the most slippery of slopes collection of things that can harm us. Water?

[spursncowboys]

I was merely pointing out his example is irrelevant. Also kudos on having the most slippery of slopes collection of things that can harm us. Water?

Yeah I laughed to myself when I included that one.