Not sure what this means on the D. Williams trade front, but:
Emiliano Carchia @SportandoBasket Official: : #Twolves sign free-agent F Lazar Hayward.
Is he more of a three or a four? If he can play as a wing, it probably means they're trying to fix their issues without trading Williams. If he's a power-forward, that would imply Williams' playing time is going to shrink even more. And if he's a combo-forward, that may completely take away Williams' time.
They wouldn't play a nine man rotation if this trade were to come to fruition; they'd go back to playing a ten man one. They're only playing nine now because Pop no longer trusts Blair/Bonner, plus it opens up more minutes for players (namely, Splitter) deserving of more minutes.
Williams would be the fourth big, but I don't think he'd get a guaranteed 15-20 mpg. I think he'd get maybe 10-12 mpg to start and then it would depend on his performance. Clearly, they'd want him to be a contributor now, but I think they'd view him as more so a long term project, as opposed to a quick fix.
As for Hayward, he's an undersized SF and a fringe player, who's incapable of fixing their issues at the position. The best way for them to accomplish that (other than just waiting for Budinger to get healthy), is to trade Ridnour. A number of teams could use a solid, veteran backup PG (Cavs, Trail Blazers, Wizards) and have wing depth to spare. By doing this, they'd open up a spot in their back court rotation . . . you've got to think that would only increase their interest in Neal.
No time for Dalembert and Henson
9:15AM ET
Milwaukee Bucks
Backup minutes going to Udoh and Ilyasova.
Be nice if we could swing a trade for Samuel Dalembert. If he's getting no PT in Milwauke i wander what we could offer them for him. He'd be no saviour but a great 3rd defensive big to team with tim and tiago, could be a lot of help.
Hayward is a SF. Words is that he will be only kept a week while his contract is still non-guaranteed and that after it, Minny will try Gelabale with 2 10 days contracts. If Hayward/Gelabale get minutes, it will heavily impact Derrick Williams because he got his minutes at the SF spot since Howard knee injury.
Orlando are house in wake of D12 leaving. I wander if they want to go into total tank mode to secure lottery picks for the next few years consecutive. They have a couple of talented bigs who could really help us. And we have a couple of expirings that could really help them tank/reload.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bd5r452
Vucevic has been in beast mode all year, 11ppg, 10rpg, 1bpg and stays out of foul trouble.
Big Baby has been on a tear this year to, injured at the moment but will recover no worries, 16ppg, 8rpg, 1bpg, 1spg and is like an immovable 300lb wide load.
Pair Davis and Vucevic with Duncan and Tiago and we'd have a 4 headed beast in the middle. Backed up by the all around play of Diaw and floor spacing Bonner we'd have a massively diverse and talented 6 deep big rotation.
So would the magic dump 2 productive players with 3 years left on their contracts for the expiring contracts of Jackson and Blair? Worth a phone call?
Thanks Bruno and TD 21 for clarification on Hayward. He doesn't seem to be the answer. But I don't think Neal is really going to be as desirable to Minnesota, either. If they get a wing they like in Gelabale, then they might be willing to stand pat. They have Shved and Barea to play the shooting-guard, and even though they're undersized, they both deserve to be in the rotation, which cuts down on minutes a player like Neal would get. If Gelabale can play the three, then their rotation seems set. I only see them needing a guard if they move Ridnour or Barea.
If the Magic are going to take expiring contracts, they'll want to dump Harrington, Turkoglu, and perhaps Davis. It would probably take Splitter, Bonner, one or both of Neal/Blair, Jackson, and a 1st rounder to pry Vucevic away along with Harrington and Turkoglu.
I actually don't think that package would work. The Magic had their chance to take back expirings (or even just a trade exception) in the Howard trade, but they instead chose to take back some long-term deals like Afflalo and Harrington. I don't think the owner cares about cap space, and especially not to the extent of giving up what may turn out to be the best piece they got from trading Howard.
On the other hand, I agree with you about their other pieces. Harrington can probably be had a matching salary, and the Magic may even be willing to add in a mid-level prospect (Harkless, for example) if the Spurs trade them Jack and maybe a first.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wacb4l
Three way trade with the Raptors and Bucks that gets us Udoh (+ Kleiza as filler) for Neal and Sjax.
I think Jax would quit before he went back to Milwaukee because he's not interested in a rebuilding team, so I guess that would rule out Toronto for him also.
Well no team really wants him either, contender or rebuilding team, it's all about his contract. But I don't think he's getting traded, just throwing it out there.
I think a lot of teams would be fine with Jack wanting to quit if that meant they could buy him out. With the way he's been playing now, his contract is really the key to his trade value. Trading him to the Bucks wouldn't work because they wouldn't want him back. He was toxic there by the end of his stay. They'd try to move him like Golden State did. Toronto doesn't have that history, so they'd be more willing to put up with him for a few months, I'd assume.
I can't see Milwaukee trading for another big on a long-term deal. Any trade involving Bargnani is going to be pretty hard to pull off.
The more I thing about it, the more I think that the only way the Spurs can get Williams is by moving Green. He seems to be more what the Wolves need than Neal is. I'd be worried about the wing position if he were to get traded, though.
I think you underrate how low Adelman is on Williams. He decided to play Dante Cunningham over Williams at PF and Josh Howard over him at SF. Add to that a $5M salary and it's hard to think Minny will be interested in keeping Williams. Unless Adelman change his mind about him, they will trade him for the best offer at the trade deadline.
You could be right and if that's the case, then it's not going to happen. I think the Spurs view Green as virtually non trade able. Not because he's some all time great in the making, but because they have no one to replace him. Neal somewhat can positionally, but you (probably) know what I mean. I think they'd only move Green for the caliber of player he (along with the usual trade candidates on this team) can't be acquired for.
In general, I don't see them creating another hole to acquire a fourth big. That's why I think Neal is the only one of the top nine they might trade for a fourth big and that's why their options are likely going to be limited.
They have that guy Manu something to replace him in the starting lineup, like they will have to do in the playoffs anyway but I agree that he's most likely off limits because Pop loves him so much...
Dude is owed 5m next year. Would the Spurs realistically have the cap space to add him and resign Manu, Tiago, AND Jax without going over the tax threshold?
I don't think the Wolves would really want Neal back, though. With Rubio, Shved, Ridnour and Barea needing minutes, Neal's impact is reduced. It's hard to say he could displace any of those guys from the rotation. They're really lacking a big shooting-guard or small-forward to play good defense and hit open shots. That's not really Neal's game.
As far as Williams goes, I don't think the Wolves are as low on him as his playing time suggests. Cunningham has played well in the games I've seen him in this year. I don't blame Adelman for playing him, especially because Minnesota wants Williams to focus on playing the three. The fact that Williams has been struggling to do that is really not surprising. I don't think Minnesota would trade him for nothing over that.
Yes. Unless Manu, Jack and Tiago ask for the max, the Spurs will be nowhere near the tax next season.
Pretty much. I wouldn't trade Green for Williams, either. He's just too much of an unknown to risk losing arguably the best perimeter defender and three-point shooter on the team.
Last edited by Chinook; 01-03-2013 at 12:55 AM.
Only players we might part ways with is Neal Bonner and Blair.
Maybe a trade for an additional first round, most desirable, or even a high second, most likely a mid for a desperate team looking for a shooter or rebounder.
Then we sign some 10 days for a couple vets, pg but most likely size. Spurs most glaring issue is fourth big. Maybe mcdyess. That would be solid.
Aside from Udoh, a good target could be Spencer Hawes, he's not a world beater and certainly not the ideal athletic big to complete our frontline rotation but I like the BBIQ, I think he could be a great fit.
Now the thing is the Sixers are looking for size (and a backup PG) so no way they trade him for anything but a big, makes it kinda complicated...
Obviously the Bucks and the Jazz are the partners of choice to make a trade happen, good thing we're mostly on good term with both...
Also I'm pretty sick of hearing about Green being untradeable, you'd think he was more than a streaky spot up shooter with shaky defense, well he isn't. But by all means keep your Danny Green and don't complain during the playoff when he goes cold and suddenly becomes useless but Pop loves his specialists... We'd have the core to have one of the best passing team since the Kings but Pop likes to play specialists like Green and Bonner who can't pass to save their lives. I just don't/won't get it, especially since we have two Manu Ginobili.
We have to trade Green imo, he's the one trade bait we can easily part with.
SG Manu / De Colo
PG TP / Neal or Mills
is good enough, actually it's incredibly awesome and more reliable than a Danny Green.
According to timvp's players pairings analysis for December 16th, De Colo Neal had one of the very best point differential of any pairing...
I'd trade him for one of Udoh, Derrick Williams or Spencer Hawes and I wouldn't look back.
Last edited by Paranoid Pop; 01-03-2013 at 01:38 AM.
Oh, no you don't, PP. You don't get to use advance statistics to try to prove your point after you dismissed the ones showing Green to be the most effective defensive player on the team last season and in the playoffs (even against OKC). Not only do they show Green to be perhaps the most influential player outside the Big Three this year, but the eye test is showing that, too. There's a reason why Pop is resting him now in blowouts even when he makes the other wings play garbage time.
To say De Colo is another Manu shows a lack of depth in analyzing Ginobili's game. Manu isn't awesome just because he makes great passes. He plays an all-around game where he can make game-changing plays on both ends of the court. Do you know who is the next-closest wing to making that kind of impact? Green. De Colo is too raw to be considered "more reliable" than Green (or even Neal or Mils).
We'll just have to agree to disagree on Green's overall talent level. But I don't see how you can try to say fringe players like De Colo are more important than him. Green has a lot to learn before he can be a consistent, all-around player, but he's still better than most players on the roster right now. Trading him sets the team back unless they get a starting power-forward in return.
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