Encouraging individual statistics as the Spurs enter 2013

[TMTTRIO]

This is why I hope Manu decides to retire at the end of the season when he's still got something left in his game rather than end his career playing really poorly.

[anonoftheinternets]

Everybody but Pop knew that Memphis and the Lakers had big front lines. Splitter and Duncan got nearly no time together until the Spurs were getting destroyed by Memphis. Savior is a strawman. The two of them can play together. Too bad they never got a chance to.

"The two of them can play together" is basically what we disagree on. According to me, "The two of them can play together ... now" but in order for this to happen earlier we needed them to play significant minutes together during the season which may or may not have affected the number of wins we had. Obv since we dint win the championship the past few years, in retrospect its a no brainer to even miss the POs so these two can play together, but fools gold or not, its difficult to walk away from so many wins and basically turn them into practice time for splitter.

[racm]

It's pretty obvious that the Leonard/Duncan/Splitter frontline has been our best since the championship years, tbh.

[TD 21]

-Tim Duncan. He’s gone from a player who didn’t make an All-Star team last year to a player who has a strong case of being the best bigman in the entire league to date. Amazing.

I actually think that's understating it . . . I'd go so far as to say, I don't see an argument for anyone else. Not even the minutes argument flies. Sure, they strategically manage his minutes, but he's not Garnett; he can and does effectively play 32-36 minutes in close games.

-Tiago Splitter is going to be a very rich man in a few months.

I'm still confident they'll convince him to re-sign for below market value. They'll sell him (I doubt it'll be hard, as he's proven he's a selfless, team first type and this is the perfect situation for him) on the big three having done so and on not wanting him to make more than any of them. Since it's likely Ginobili comes in at $7-8M, that means he'll probably get $6-7M.

[racm]

7 million for Splitter is a vast underpayment for him.

[Brazil]

When you see the contract of some bigs in the league 6 7 a year would be a bargain

[Obstructed_View]

"The two of them can play together" is basically what we disagree on. According to me, "The two of them can play together ... now" but in order for this to happen earlier we needed them to play significant minutes together during the season which may or may not have affected the number of wins we had. Obv since we dint win the championship the past few years, in retrospect its a no brainer to even miss the POs so these two can play together, but fools gold or not, its difficult to walk away from so many wins and basically turn them into practice time for splitter.

You're basing your logic on the false premise that Splitter is somehow a far better player than he was when the Spurs brought him in, when Duncan's improved more than Splitter has since that time. You're compounding the failure of the argument by suggesting that playing Splitter and Duncan together would have cost them regular season games, as though that mattered a fraction as much as having a big lineup to put against Randolph and Gasol when it mattered. Splitter's ability to get the Grizzlies into the penalty and get himself to the line despite being dropped in cold by Pop should reinforce the depth of that mistake as much as how well he and Duncan are playing together now.

[Danny.Zhu]

Too bad that's still not enough to beat the Thunder.

[Richie]

Since it's likely Ginobili comes in at $7-8M, that means he'll probably get $6-7M.

too much for Manu IMO. No doubt he deserves more, but if we want to sign a decent free agent we need to get him for around $5m.

Manu $5m
Splitter $7m
New FA Big (Millsap/West?) $10m
Jax $2.5m (Bi annual)

If Jax wont take $2.5m, let him go and give Leonard more minutes. Getting a new big man while keeping Splitter/Manu is the priority, we can live without Jack

[SpursIndonesia]

7 million for Splitter is a vast underpayment for him.

A deal similar to Asik's but for 4 years seems appropiate. Splitter is the better scorer, but Asik's a monster reboundingwise and a slightly better defender (without fouling).

[objective]

too much for Manu IMO. No doubt he deserves more, but if we want to sign a decent free agent we need to get him for around $5m.

Manu $5m
Splitter $7m
New FA Big (Millsap/West?) $10m
Jax $2.5m (Bi annual)

If Jax wont take $2.5m, let him go and give Leonard more minutes. Getting a new big man while keeping Splitter/Manu is the priority, we can live without Jack

Spurs won't have the bi-annual this coming summer, they spent it last summer on De Colo.

If Diaw and Mills pick up their options, the Spurs keep their 1st, and they buyout Bonner's partial guarantee, I believe they'd only have about $19 million to spend on free agents or retaining Manu, Splitter, Neal or Jackson.

Splitter might be a goner, or just so expensive that he and Manu might mean that there will be very little left over for anything other than a sub-MLE type deal. Too bad Pop wasted everybody's time and Duncan's later years because 'it wouldn't be fair to the team'.

[exstatic]

too much for Manu IMO. No doubt he deserves more, but if we want to sign a decent free agent we need to get him for around $5m.

Manu $5m
Splitter $7m
New FA Big (Millsap/West?) $10m
Jax $2.5m (Bi annual)

If Jax wont take $2.5m, let him go and give Leonard more minutes. Getting a new big man while keeping Splitter/Manu is the priority, we can live without Jack

CBA fail. Salary that you reduce that is already above the cap goes away. You can't take money from Manu, Jack, etc and allocate it to a FA. You have to drop below the cap by the amount you want to pay a FA. Spurs haven't been anywhere NEAR the cap in years, bumping up against or actually paying the tax.

[Richie]

Spurs won't have the bi-annual this coming summer, they spent it last summer on De Colo.

If Diaw and Mills pick up their options, the Spurs keep their 1st, and they buyout Bonner's partial guarantee, I believe they'd only have about $19 million to spend on free agents or retaining Manu, Splitter, Neal or Jackson.

Splitter might be a goner, or just so expensive that he and Manu might mean that there will be very little left over for anything other than a sub-MLE type deal. Too bad Pop wasted everybody's time and Duncan's later years because 'it wouldn't be fair to the team'.

Was going on Brunos figures of $22m cap space waiving Bonner and draft+stash our 1st. Disappointed we don't have our Bi Annual, didn't realise we had spent it.

In that case, for the good of the team we may have to say goodbye to Jack. If we can sign Manu for $5m then we would have $17m for a new big and splitter, I said $7m-$10m split but could also be $8m-$9m. Stating at $8m, we could give Splitter $43m/5 years which I'd hope is enough to keep him.

We can't expect Tim to play this well for much longer, more big man help is an absolute must, even at the expense of Jackson.

We could even waive Diaw and with the stretch provision that could free up a few extra million to resgin Jax, but that would only be worth it if we could get a big man of at least the quality of West.

Most likely is that we end up resigning our current team and don't add a significant free agent, but with the age of players like Tim, Manu and Jax that would be a mistake and a step backwards IMO.

[TD 21]

Richie, no way they'd disrespect Ginobili by offering him $5M (relatively speaking, of course).

By making numerous reasonable projections (Ginobili re-signs for $7-8M, Splitter for $6-7M, Neal and Jackson for $3M, the 1st signs for $1M, Bonner, who's non guaranteed, is waived, Mills, who's got a player option, opts out, while Diaw, who also has one, doesn't), I've got them at about $52M committed for next season. The cap is projected to be around $60M and the tax $70M.

The best free agent options are: Smith, Blatche, Brand, maybe Landry (player option), West, Hickson and Millsap. Even if Ginobili took $5M, they wouldn't have nearly enough to sign Smith or Millsap, while Blatche and Hickson aren't "Spurs". That leaves Brand, maybe Landry and West.

[Nathan89]

My face throughout reading the OP.

Tiago better not start choking fts in the playoffs like last year.

[Richie]

CBA fail. Salary that you reduce that is already above the cap goes away. You can't take money from Manu, Jack, etc and allocate it to a FA. You have to drop below the cap by the amount you want to pay a FA. Spurs haven't been anywhere NEAR the cap in years, bumping up against or actually paying the tax.

Go check Brunos Spurs Salaries thread. We could be around $22m under the cap when Jacksons and Manus contracts expire this summer. They have big cap holds, but we could waive them and resign them with cap space later if we need to.

[Brunodf]

Richie, no way they'd disrespect Ginobili by offering him $5M (relatively speaking, of course).

By making numerous reasonable projections (Ginobili re-signs for $7-8M, Splitter for $6-7M, Neal and Jackson for $3M, the 1st signs for $1M, Bonner, who's non guaranteed, is waived, Mills, who's got a player option, opts out, while Diaw, who also has one, doesn't), I've got them at about $52M committed for next season. The cap is projected to be around $60M and the tax $70M.

The best free agent options are: Smith, Blatche, Brand, maybe Landry (player option), West, Hickson and Millsap. Even if Ginobili took $5M, they wouldn't have nearly enough to sign Smith or Millsap, while Blatche and Hickson aren't "Spurs". That leaves Brand, maybe Landry and West.

[Nathan89]

Possible Boozer amnesty for the Spurs to pick up on the cheap. Maybe others throughout the league. Spurs should come away with something decent.

[therealtruth]

Spurs won't have the bi-annual this coming summer, they spent it last summer on De Colo.

If Diaw and Mills pick up their options, the Spurs keep their 1st, and they buyout Bonner's partial guarantee, I believe they'd only have about $19 million to spend on free agents or retaining Manu, Splitter, Neal or Jackson.

Splitter might be a goner, or just so expensive that he and Manu might mean that there will be very little left over for anything other than a sub-MLE type deal. Too bad Pop wasted everybody's time and Duncan's later years because 'it wouldn't be fair to the team'.

The irony is going through the Bonner/Blair experiment is what has not been fair to the team. Those guys are not rotation bigs on any team with championship aspirations. Everybody but Pop knew it. Maybe he was just going for the regular season championship.

[Richie]

Richie, no way they'd disrespect Ginobili by offering him $5M (relatively speaking, of course).

By making numerous reasonable projections (Ginobili re-signs for $7-8M, Splitter for $6-7M, Neal and Jackson for $3M, the 1st signs for $1M, Bonner, who's non guaranteed, is waived, Mills, who's got a player option, opts out, while Diaw, who also has one, doesn't), I've got them at about $52M committed for next season. The cap is projected to be around $60M and the tax $70M.

The best free agent options are: Smith, Blatche, Brand, maybe Landry (player option), West, Hickson and Millsap. Even if Ginobili took $5M, they wouldn't have nearly enough to sign Smith or Millsap, while Blatche and Hickson aren't "Spurs". That leaves Brand, maybe Landry and West.

I don't really disagree, and if Manu says he wants $8m then give it to him. No doubt he has earned it. But hopefully the front office can make the case to him that sacrificing some money for a chance at a 4th ring and maybe he takes it.

The reality is that we can waive Manu and Jackson (and thus their monster cap holds) and see who we can attract.

As I said, we will likely stand pat and just resign our current team, but that would be a step backwards and would mean Timmy/Manu still shouldering a big burden next season at 37 and 36 respectively. As a worst case scenario that's not too bad, but I'm hoping we can do something.

[objective]

Go check Brunos Spurs Salaries thread. We could be around $22m under the cap when Jacksons and Manus contracts expire this summer. They have big cap holds, but we could waive them and resign them with cap space later if we need to.

The 22 number depends on the cap going up to 62. Maybe it does, or up to 65. I however am a conservative with regards to the cap that has been flat for two years at 58.044. I was pegging it at 59, thus the 3 mil difference.

Besides, even if the Spurs hadn't used the Bi-Annual on De Colo, if they wanted as much cap room as possible in 2013 they would have to renounce their exceptions. Teams under the cap have exceptions counted towards their salaries, so teams that want the most room renounce the MLE and B-A.

But, looking things over now, the Spurs might have the 'room exception'. So I guess that could be used on Jackson. I'm a little behind on this.

[racm]

-With Tony Parker, his season has been spectacular from many angles. I’m not sure which is the best way to view it. His shooting percentages jump off the page (51.7% from the field, 40.5% on three-pointers, 82.6% at the line). His PER over his last 21 games is a sterling 25.7. But perhaps my favorite number of all: nobody in NBA history has scored at Parker’s per-minute rate of points and handed out his per-minute rate of assists while turning the ball over as infrequently has he has. Nobody. Ever.

http://bkref.com/tiny/CXOEs

[Richie]

The 22 number depends on the cap going up to 62. Maybe it does, or up to 65. I however am a conservative with regards to the cap that has been flat for two years at 58.044. I was pegging it at 59, thus the 3 mil difference.

Besides, even if the Spurs hadn't used the Bi-Annual on De Colo, if they wanted as much cap room as possible in 2013 they would have to renounce their exceptions. Teams under the cap have exceptions counted towards their salaries, so teams that want the most room renounce the MLE and B-A.

But, looking things over now, the Spurs might have the 'room exception'. So I guess that could be used on Jackson. I'm a little behind on this.

That could be what I'm thinking of, I'm fairly sure when I looked it up originally there was an exception we could use after we have used cap space. I'm hardly an expert, just did some googling.

[TD 21]

I don't really disagree, and if Manu says he wants $8m then give it to him. No doubt he has earned it. But hopefully the front office can make the case to him that sacrificing some money for a chance at a 4th ring and maybe he takes it.

The reality is that we can waive Manu and Jackson (and thus their monster cap holds) and see who we can attract.

As I said, we will likely stand pat and just resign our current team, but that would be a step backwards and would mean Timmy/Manu still shouldering a big burden next season at 37 and 36 respectively. As a worst case scenario that's not too bad, but I'm hoping we can do something.

By taking $7-8M, he'd be sacrificing . . . and there's no way they're waiving him, either.

I'm sure they'd go after West if he makes it to July 1st. But more likely, they'll end up with Brand. That may come off as disappointing, but now that Splitter and Diaw are in their proper roles, they really only need a fourth big. Obviously, if they can do better, great. Brand is still useful though and despite being undersized, he can work next to Diaw, because he's a solid rebounder/shot blocker. He can also work next to Duncan and even Splitter, which would give them maximum flexibility.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, timvp . . .

[Richie]

By taking $7-8M, he'd be sacrificing . . . and there's no way they're waiving him, either.

I'm sure they'd go after West if he makes it to July 1st. But more likely, they'll end up with Brand. That may come off as disappointing, but now that Splitter and Diaw are in their proper roles, they really only need a fourth big. Obviously, if they can do better, great. Brand is still useful though and despite being undersized, he can work next to Diaw, because he's a solid rebounder/shot blocker. He can also work next to Duncan and even Splitter, which would give them maximum flexibility.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, timvp . . .

Waiving Manu would simply be a logistical thing to get rid of his cap hold, since we'll be resigning him with cap space anyway his bird rights aren't worth anything at his age. Same for Jackson.

Personally I hope Manu puts the possibility of winning over a few extra million. If you're right and the best we can get is Brand then we can sign him and comfortably have space to give Manu a big send off contract. If we can get someone better, we can have Manu involved in the front office decision and he can voice his opinion over whether signing that free agent gives us enough of a chance of winning to make it worth him taking less money.