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He won like 2 MVP`s, 3 Finals MVP`s, 3 championships being PF.
I was reading some forums today and a post just irritated me. I get tired of the "Tim Duncan is not the greatest power forward ever because he's a center" debates. Yes, he may play a lot of center now but that wasn't true for most of his career.
In 1997-2003, Robinson was clearly the center. Backup was Will Perdue, Kevin Willis.
In 2003-2006, Nesterovic was clearly the center. Backups were Kevin Willis, Nazr Mohammed.
In 2006-2009, Oberto was the center.
In 2009-2012, Blair was the center.
And now in 2013, it appears Tiago is starting to get the nod.
Only since 2006 have the Spurs used the undersized center lineup starting with Oberto. The Robinson and Nesterovic eras span 9 years and encompasses Duncan's peak years (also majority of years) at which he clearly played the power forward position.
So, though you can say now that you can consider him either a PF or Center, I think the Tim Duncan is not the GOAT PF because he's a center arguments should be thrown out. What do you guys think?
He won like 2 MVP`s, 3 Finals MVP`s, 3 championships being PF.
uh oh
It's hard to tell, on defense Duncan was mostly PF, but on offense the other big typically shot long jumpers and Duncan operated in the low block. Duncan also shot long jumpers before he bulked-up and now that he's older.
DRob, Rasho, Horry, Dice were mostly positioned as PF's on offense, while Duncan operated in the paint. Others like Malik, Nazr, Oberto, Blair, Splitter lacked consistency from the mid-range and were centers on offense.
In all would agree Duncan was mostly a PF during his career.
Duncan is whatever he says he is. That's good enough for me.
there are no official positions. did rashard lewis on orlando play at all similar to tim duncan in 2003? did they have the same role? no, but they were listed as "starting power forwards." does pau gasol play anything like josh smith? official positions don't really exist. they were suggested to make it easier for fans to identify players and their roles. power forwards and centers are often interchangeable, as are shooting guards and small forwards. heck, do any of you think lebron really plays like a power forward? because thats what he's been listed as this year. compare ibaka's game to kevin love's.
stop fretting over positions. i mean i can easily argue timmy is a center if i really wanted to. but for the sake of the argument, he's been listed as a power forward time and time again, so thats what we're going to have to go with
Is DeMarcus Ware one of the greatest DEs or LBs or all time? When he puts his hand on the ground and lines up at the line of scrimmage, what position is he playing?
When Tiago or DeJuan are set up on the block and Timmy is popping jumpers from the top of the key or from the logo, what position is Timmy playing on offense?
He's both. He's a PF/C aka "forward-center." I think that settles it.
Regarding his historical standing, it doesn't matter whether you consider him a PF or a C. Either way, he's one of the top 10 (or even top 5) players of all time. If you put him with PFs, he is #1 easily. If you put him with Cs, which is (historically) a more compe ive position, he is top 3-5. Take your pick.
Someone else made the good point that he is what he wants to be, and positions are just labels we attach to players. I used to say, "If Tim considers himself a PF, then he is a PF." He used to insist on it, and it was defensible for most of his career. But now, I think even he would be forced to admit that he plays center.
Dejuan Blair is NOT a center. That's just nonsense. He's hardly big enough to play PF in the NBA, much less center. I can work with your logic up until this, but Blair is not a center by any definition.In 2009-2012, Blair was the center.
The way I see it, Duncan played PF in the era when it was fashionable to have two 7-footers on the floor at all times. Now, in an era with smaller players in general, he plays center. Overall, he is a forward-center. It's that simple.
Power Forward
with tiago they are basically both hybrids.. neither is a monkeyballer and neither i a stretch player or a player with a real range.. so, none is really a C or a PF, they both fit the typical double role player type.
He's a point center, who in his younger days, was capable of defending power forwards. Like Olajuwon, he may not have overwhelming size for a center, but he does everything you'd want from a center and he does it all at an elite level. This idea that he/the Spurs insist on calling him a power forward so that they can say he's the greatest at something, is ridiculous. The reality is, he did play mostly power forward up until 06-07 and he played it better than anyone ever has.
06-09, Oberto was not the center. He was listed as it (as is everyone who starts next to Duncan), but Duncan almost exclusively defended centers and mostly operated in the lost post on offense.
Even next to Splitter, he's still the center. He exclusively defends them, while on offense he plays a combination of both.
As for Blair, he's a center on offense and a power forward on defense. He requires a specific type next to him, such as Duncan, who is capable of essentially playing power forward on offense, while playing center on defense. A high level of defense at that, to at least somewhat mask Blair's obvious shortcomings.
To be fair in his younger days he'd defend amare, who was a quick power forward. He'd also match up on Rasheed, KG. when he needed to, he would cover centers like shaq or Yao.
Kevin Mchale operates on the low block too, but nobody calls him a center. Duncan used his face up game quite a bit, which is very "forward-like"
Tbh, Duncan is pretty much a PF these days on offense, IMO. That wasn't always so, though.
It's all arbitrary, though, tbh.
???
You know where the "Point" is on the court, right?
Typically, a point guard or guard enters the offense. Tim doesn't enter the offense, although he has often been a hub or focal point of the offense...a player through which the offense runs. He's not a "point center", though. When Paul Pressey was a "Point Forward" he entered the offense for the Bucks and Spurs. Tim doesn't usually bring the ball up and initiate the offense.
Last edited by Solid D; 01-03-2013 at 06:58 PM.
Tbh, sometimes these days Timmy seems to want to enter the offense when he dribbles the ball up court on the break or throws hero heaves down court QB-style.
"Tragic Johnson"Tbh, sometimes these days Timmy seems to want to enter the offense when he dribbles the ball up court on the break or throws hero heaves down court QB-style.
Let's just say Duncan is the best big man ever. He might very well become the best if he wins another ring and plays the next few seasons as well as he is playing now.
Believe it or not, I do and I'm aware of their responsibilities.
I didn't literally mean he's a point guard, I meant he's about as close to one as a center can be. Hence the term point center.
It doesn't make sense to me but whatever you say, I guess. I'm getting ready to watch a game.
The NBA and it's players have changed a lot in the last 10 or so years. Once upon a time a centre was clearly a centre, had no outside game to speak of and spent all game manning the paint. The Power Forward was a bit smaller and more versatile and could play inside and outside. These days with seemingly less true big men and more versatile tweener bigs things have changed.
PF's play centre these days. SF's quite often slide over to PF.
IMO the les of C and PF should be taken away and combined together. These days a big man is just a big man.
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