General Trades Discussion

[Paranoid Pop]

Oh, no you don't, PP . You don't get to use advance statistics to try to prove your point after you dismissed the ones showing Green to be the most effective defensive player on the team last season and in the playoffs (even against OKC). Not only do they show Green to be perhaps the most influential player outside the Big Three this year, but the eye test is showing that, too. There's a reason why Pop is resting him now in blowouts even when he makes the other wings play garbage time.

So the eye test is showing that Green is more influencial than Tiago and KY... The team wasn't doing so good without KY and Tiago starting is the single biggest game changer but the mighty Green has more impact... That said he's taking quite a few shots away from these two, he does have a big influence that way, not in a good way tho...

To say De Colo is another Manu shows a lack of depth in analyzing Ginobili's game. Manu isn't awesome just because he makes great passes. He plays an all-around game where he can make game-changing plays on both ends of the court. Do you know who is the next-closest wing to making that kind of impact? Green. De Colo is too raw to be considered "more reliable" than Green (or even Neal or Mils).

Green can't make a play to save his life, he can't pass, he can't put the ball on the floor... Both Neal and De Colo are at least able to play the PnR with a big, it's like day and night, Green has the most limited game on the team with Bonner. De Colo guarded Wade while Green got raped by Kobe and most SGs he faces...

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Green's overall talent level. But I don't see how you can try to say fringe players like De Colo are more important than him. Green has a lot to learn before he can be a consistent, all-around player, but he's still better than most players on the roster right now. Trading him sets the team back unless they get a starting power-forward in return.

De Colo has proven himself in Europe and with his national team, so did Mills, meanwhile Green was scrubing in Poland like a no name scrub. Few players got the opportunity Green got, they called his coach to have a "talk", gave him a starting spot, some of it had to do with Manu's injury but a lot of it was man love from Pop.

But you know what, I hope I get proven wrong because I wish for the team to succeed more than anything but Pop better be confident in his choice, because it's all on him, one way or the other. For me there's too many Bonner's similarities to ignore.

The remaining big was always gonna be a free agent tosb I guess.

[Strategic]

The remaining big was always gonna be a free agent tosb I guess.

I agree with this. This season is almost half over making it a little late for a young big to be able to learn enough of the system to help. I know last year they were able to get Diaw, but he is a seasoned vet and is also familiar with Parker. This leaves either someone with substantial league experience(I would hate to see the team sign a FA in the 30 plus club), or someone already playing with the Toros, ie Wilkerson or Jackson. I guess McDyess is a possibility, but being the professional he is, I think he would already be with the team if he was really going to happen.

[Chinook]

You'll have to forgive me first off. I'm not very good at this quote-by-quote thing.

So the eye test is showing that Green is more influencial than Tiago and KY... The team wasn't doing so good without KY and Tiago starting is the single biggest game changer but the mighty Green has more impact... That said he's taking quite a few shots away from these two, he does have a big influence that way, not in a good way tho...

The Spurs won as many games as they did when KL (I assume you're talking about Leonard here) was out because Green was able to hold down the fort at the three for so long. It really took it's toll on him physically and on the team, but they still had a good record during that stretch. So yeah, Green's proven his worth. I love Kawhi as much as anyone, but he's not playing better than Green right now. He makes flashy plays, but he has not been the defensive anchor people pretend he's been. He obviously has a higher ceiling, but he's not playing as well as consistently as Green is.

Tiago starting can't be considered the biggest factor in the Spurs' turn-around, because he was starting during the losing period. He's obviously really important, and his success is essential to the Spurs' having any chance of winning it all. But that doesn't mean Green isn't just as important. He continues to be the best player to try to check Wade and Paul in crunch time.

Green only really takes shots when he's open. That's not really taking opportunities from Splitter and Leonard, as it wouldn't make sense only have four players score on the court. Green is also great shooter, so there's no reason why the Spurs should give up a better chance at points just to have Kawhi shoot more.

Green can't make a play to save his life, he can't pass, he can't put the ball on the floor... Both Neal and De Colo are at least able to play the PnR with a big, it's like day and night, Green has the most limited game on the team with Bonner. De Colo guarded Wade while Green got raped by Kobe and most SGs he faces...

Green has made plays, but obviously he's not a De Colo's level in that regard. He's not a driver, which is obviously something that he needs to work on and that he's been working on. He's not a big creator, but he makes the smart pass and he obviously knows the offense as well as anyone. He's calling plays out as much as anyone outside the Big Three when he's on the court. He's also hit big shots, which is more important on this team than having a flashy passer.

I don't know what you're seeing in De Colo to think he's a great defender. He guarded Wade well when he was injured and not trying, but as the game went on, he really lost effectiveness. Besides that performance, he's really been nothing better than adequate on that end, and that's usually only against backup point guards (and slow ones at that). Green has always drawn harder assignments and has done well for the most part. Kobe got him, as did Harden the first Rockets game. But he's been good against many others (Paul, Derozan, Mayo, Lin, Harden the third game, Williams, etc.). Leonard, for all his hype, is only good against Durant, Gay and Kobe at the end of the game this season. That's obviously a great set of players against which to have success, and it's sorely needed on this team, but he's also struggled against players like Kobe and Harden. He's been as great as he's been in steals this year primarily because he hasn't been asked to defend the other team's best wing. That's been Green's job.

De Colo has proven himself in Europe and with his national team, so did Mills, meanwhile Green was scrubing in Poland like a no name scrub. Few players got the opportunity Green got, they called his coach to have a "talk", gave him a starting spot, some of it had to do with Manu's injury but a lot of it was man love from Pop.

I don't want to belittle De Colo's international accomplishments, but they don't show that he's an NBA player much. The international game is too different to compare them. The fact that Green was bad in Poland is not a reflection of his worth. He was only there for a short time, so I imagine he really wasn't adjusted to being in another country. He's proven himself in the NBA, though, which matters more to this discussion than any time in Europe.

You seem to forget how Green got the starting job. It wasn't because he was playing badly but got favoritism from Pop. It was because he was an tremendous play-maker in limited minutes. He was expected to be cut before last season, but he played so well in pre-season and in spot duty, that Pop eventually gave up on a second-year first-round pick to give the better player more minutes. Performances like the Cleveland and Dallas games cemented his role as the glue guy. He played well enough to allow Pop to play Manu off the bench. Nothing was given to Green; he earned it through his play over the first half of the season.

For me there's too many Bonner's similarities to ignore.

I'm starting to think you don't know what people mean when they criticize Bonner. Bonner's whole benefit is that the offense plays insanely well due to the spacing his three-point shooting supplies. That's why he was called the +/- King. As soon as the March (it's been getting earlier each year) rolls around, his shooting goes south, and the Spurs' can't adjust to the lack of spacing.

Green's production isn't based on three-point shooting. He's a really good help and individual defender, and he rebounds very well for his position. He boxes out well, and he provides timely plays. That did not dry up during the stretch run. He was a big part in the Spurs' 20-game winning streak. In the first two rounds of the playoffs, he (and Leonard) was absolutely destroying their compe ors. Green was a major part of the comeback in Game Three against the Clippers, and he played critical defense on Paul to close out Game Four. In the OKC series, he hit a shooting slump, which he obviously let get to him in other aspects of the game. But he was still the defensive-rating king. Bonner never had that impact when his shots don't fall in a series.

Green and Bonner are nothing alike. Jefferson and Bonner were, maybe. But Green has made too many clutch plays to say he shrinks under pressure.

As far as bigs go, we'll see what happens. Neal and Bonner may help get someone who can back Splitter up at the five. I really just don't want to see Blair on the court again. If they can't trade him, they just need to buy him out.

[Paranoid Pop]

You'll have to forgive me first off. I'm not very good at this quote-by-quote thing.


The Spurs won as many games as they did when KL (I assume you're talking about Leonard here) was out because Green was able to hold down the fort at the three for so long. It really took it's toll on him physically and on the team, but they still had a good record during that stretch. So yeah, Green's proven his worth. I love Kawhi as much as anyone, but he's not playing better than Green right now. He makes flashy plays, but he has not been the defensive anchor people pretend he's been. He obviously has a higher ceiling, but he's not playing as well as consistently as Green is.

Tiago starting can't be considered the biggest factor in the Spurs' turn-around, because he was starting during the losing period. He's obviously really important, and his success is essential to the Spurs' having any chance of winning it all. But that doesn't mean Green isn't just as important. He continues to be the best player to try to check Wade and Paul in crunch time.

Vs the likes of the Thunder...

Green only really takes shots when he's open. That's not really taking opportunities from Splitter and Leonard, as it wouldn't make sense only have four players score on the court. Green is also great shooter, so there's no reason why the Spurs should give up a better chance at points just to have Kawhi shoot more.

Well you know what I mean, MAnu and De Colo may use the fact that they are open to drive and pass to Tiago or get a better % shot, playing them get us easier shots.

Green has made plays, but obviously he's not a De Colo's level in that regard. He's not a driver, which is obviously something that he needs to work on and that he's been working on. He's not a big creator, but he makes the smart pass and he obviously knows the offense as well as anyone. He's calling plays out as much as anyone outside the Big Three when he's on the court. He's also hit big shots, which is more important on this team than having a flashy passer.

Like? He has one game winner in his life and he got a looot called for him even back to last year, not a great % of clutch makes if we're being honest.

I don't know what you're seeing in De Colo to think he's a great defender. He guarded Wade well when he was injured and not trying, but as the game went on, he really lost effectiveness. Besides that performance, he's really been nothing better than adequate on that end, and that's usually only against backup point guards (and slow ones at that). Green has always drawn harder assignments and has done well for the most part. Kobe got him, as did Harden the first Rockets game. But he's been good against many others (Paul, Derozan, Mayo, Lin, Harden the third game, Williams, etc.). Leonard, for all his hype, is only good against Durant, Gay and Kobe at the end of the game this season. That's obviously a great set of players against which to have success, and it's sorely needed on this team, but he's also struggled against players like Kobe and Harden. He's been as great as he's been in steals this year primarily because he hasn't been asked to defend the other team's best wing. That's been Green's job.

Got the same question with Green tbh, no sure where the myth of Green being a great defender originated, he's mostly decent at help defense, can't really lock anyone down, best bet is to throw his hustling at a PG bringing the ball up the court but really there's no much skill involved.

I don't want to belittle De Colo's international accomplishments, but they don't show that he's an NBA player much. The international game is too different to compare them. The fact that Green was bad in Poland is not a reflection of his worth. He was only there for a short time, so I imagine he really wasn't adjusted to being in another country. He's proven himself in the NBA, though, which matters more to this discussion than any time in Europe.

You seem to forget how Green got the starting job. It wasn't because he was playing badly but got favoritism from Pop. It was because he was an tremendous play-maker in limited minutes.

The term playmaker is definitely misused right there... James Anderson has more playmaking abilities in his pinkie at any point in time than Green ever will. He a spot up shooter and an hustling guy on D. While it's nice to have the motor to hustle, it's one the most suspect "skill" imo, typically used in contract years by the scrubs of the league, besides everyone hustle in the playoffs.

He was expected to be cut before last season, but he played so well in pre-season and in spot duty, that Pop eventually gave up on a second-year first-round pick to give the better player more minutes. Performances like the Cleveland and Dallas games cemented his role as the glue guy. He played well enough to allow Pop to play Manu off the bench. Nothing was given to Green; he earned it through his play over the first half of the season.

It was given to him in the sense that no one really got that kind of opportunity that quickly, he was babied more than anyone but maybe Blair, another player who got to start thanks to Pop being irrational...

I'm starting to think you don't know what people mean when they criticize Bonner. Bonner's whole benefit is that the offense plays insanely well due to the spacing his three-point shooting supplies. That's why he was called the +/- King. As soon as the March (it's been getting earlier each year) rolls around, his shooting goes south, and the Spurs' can't adjust to the lack of spacing.

Green's production isn't based on three-point shooting. He's a really good help and individual defender, and he rebounds very well for his position. He boxes out well, and he provides timely plays. That did not dry up during the stretch run. He was a big part in the Spurs' 20-game winning streak. In the first two rounds of the playoffs, he (and Leonard) was absolutely destroying their compe ors. Green was a major part of the comeback in Game Three against the Clippers, and he played critical defense on Paul to close out Game Four. In the OKC series, he hit a shooting slump, which he obviously let get to him in other aspects of the game. But he was still the defensive-rating king. Bonner never had that impact when his shots don't fall in a series.

Green and Bonner are nothing alike. Jefferson and Bonner were, maybe. But Green has made too many clutch plays to say he shrinks under pressure.

Yes they are, Pop's favorites, stat kinda back up their efficiency but they don't pass the eyetest and don't cut it in the playoffs. Also Green's efficiency has everything to do with his shot, you're kidding yourself if you believe he's a great enough defender not to hurt the team more than anyone when he's bricking shots. It'd be like arguing that this year's Bonner is a great enough rebounder to make a difference no matter what...

As far as bigs go, we'll see what happens. Neal and Bonner may help get someone who can back Splitter up at the five. I really just don't want to see Blair on the court again. If they can't trade him, they just need to buy him out.

They won't they paid 1 M so that other teams couldn't get him, teams like Miami that were smart enough to call their bluff and no send a pick back for him... They may salary dump him but I don't believe they will buy him out.

[Chinook]

I guess we're just gonna have to pretend like two different realities happened last year. It's clear you have your own view of Green that nothing can change. That's okay. There are plenty of things to discuss that don't involve him.

I just don't see why the Spurs kept Blair this offseason if Pop was thinking about giving up on him. He's not even good depth anymore.

[Paranoid Pop]

I guess we're just gonna have to pretend like two different realities happened last year. It's clear you have your own view of Green that nothing can change. That's okay. There are plenty of things to discuss that don't involve him.

I just don't see why the Spurs kept Blair this offseason if Pop was thinking about giving up on him. He's not even good depth anymore.

Anyway we have way bigger problems than Green. Green is a fine SG (who is played SF when he shouldn't tho).

Like someone said in the game thread, might be the right time to give Gelabale a call and look to trade SJax.

Not everybody can be untradable on this team...

[Paranoid Pop]

We basically have no choice but to at least take back one ty contract imo if we only have SJax, Neal and Bonner and not very attractive picks to send.

[TD 21]

Random trade idea that popped into my head when considering why Blair didn't play in garbage time tonight: Blair/Joseph for Ayon/Smith, with Smith being waived immediately.

Considering how well he played as a rookie, he's had a disappointing season and given that the Magic have exactly one NBA PG on their roster (Moore is more SG than PG and Smith is a fringe player) and he's an aging, fringe starter, it's not difficult to see why this might interest them.

For the Spurs, they were interested before he signed with the Hornets and given that he's a foreigner and a high IQ type, there's probably a pretty good chance he'd at least more closely resemble the player he was last season with them. If not, at least they'd be getting a backup C (which would allow them to play Duncan and Splitter together even more if they so choose) and a solid defensive rebounder, while ridding themselves of Blair and staying under the tax.

[Paranoid Pop]

I like it tbh.

Like it's Fredette's destiny to be traded to the Jazz, Ayon is made for SA...

That said, you rarely trade big for small unless you get something really good, and we're sending a D leaguer... Granted he could be good enough to be our own backup PG... But Ayon's contract seems too cheap for them to part with him.

[TD 21]

Upon further review, Smith is surprisingly guaranteed through next season (low salary, but still), so it makes sense to just go Ayon for Joseph straight up (because they're at 15, though Jones is non-guaranteed), with Blair being traded to whoever is willing to take him (Bobcats? Cavs?) for a top 50 or 55 protected 2nd round pick 3-5 years from now.

Also, apparently he thrived playing the pick-and-roll with Vasquez, so you've got to think he'd thrive playing primarily with Ginobili and occasionally with Parker. This is what Ginobili and the 2nd unit in general needs. It's not just a backup C, it's someone who thrives in the pick-and-roll. Then Splitter can become a legit starter, as opposed to a halfway one.

[Chinook]

I still like the idea of trading Blair for Jeremy Tyler. Tyler's pretty much shown nothing for the Warriors, but he's a big with potential who can sit on the bench as well as Blair can in a worst-case scenario. His contract has only 100k guaranteed for next year. He may be able to show some progress in a strong locker room. I don't think the Warriors would think him too big of a price to pay if they still want Blair at all.

What's better is that the Spurs can get a $1.1 Million trade exception by using Ford's TE from last year to take Tyler while sending Blair to Golden State for part of Udoh's TE. That gives San Antonio the ability to claim non-minimum players off waivers, which can be a good thing if a Corey Brewer situation happens again within the next year.

[Richie]

Nobody who has seen Blair play this year will want him in a trade

[Chinook]

Blair's best value may be allowing a team to dump a player they picked in the 20s of the first round. A team in a situation like Houston was in training camp may be interested in trading for an expiring Blair rather than having to s out guaranteed money for a player whose option they realized they shouldn't have picked up.

[Chinook]

Anyway we have way bigger problems than Green. Green is a fine SG (who is played SF when he shouldn't tho).

Like someone said in the game thread, might be the right time to give Gelabale a call and look to trade SJax.

Not everybody can be untradable on this team...

If Jack can't get it together, the Spurs need to move him. The idea of keeping him just so they can get cap room next summer is foolish, in my opinion. If they can get a good $8 Million player for him now, that may be better than signing an MLE player in the offseason. They really don't have room for a much bigger deal than that unless they re-sign almost no one.

[Bruno]

First, Minny seems to want Red and, even if Neal isn't as good as him, they are the same kind of players.
Second, there is a little basis for us to talk about Williams since Spurs were high on him a year ago.
Third, Given their roster additions, I doubt Suns And Rockets are still interested in Williams. Lakers have nothing to offer unless they do a big trade with Gasol.

[CGD]

First, Minny seems to want Red and, even if Neal isn't as good as him, they are the same kind of players.
Second, there is a little basis for us to talk about Williams since Spurs were high on him a year ago.
Third, Given their roster additions, I doubt Suns And Rockets are still interested in Williams. Lakers have nothing to offer unless they do a big trade with Gasol.

I did see that the Wolves like JJ. I found it interesting from the Wolfson tweet that it would "probably take Derrick Williams AND a future first-rounder to get Orlando's attention." JJ is decent, but I underestimated how low the Wolves seem to be on Derrick Williams if they are also considering giving up a 1st to get him.

[ace3g]

would be nice to have someone that could do this:

[Chinook]

Maybe the Spurs have to use Jack as the expiring with Neal and take back a contract that Minnesota doesn't want? Having Williams' $5 Million on the books pretty much kills the chance at cap space in the off season anyway.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aet5oyx

Ridnour can help as a backup point, so it's not like his contract is too bad. I'd like the Spurs to move Bonner for a wing in this case. I guess Wilson Chandler is available, but his contract is awful.

I just don't see how Neal is more appealing than JJ Barea. Barea hits threes, but he also plays with hustle and more drive. I can't see him being kicked out of the rotation. If that above trade goes through, though, there should be enough room for everyone there.

[Seventyniner]

Maybe the Spurs have to use Jack as the expiring with Neal and take back a contract that Minnesota doesn't want? Having Williams' $5 Million on the books pretty much kills the chance at cap space in the off season anyway.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aet5oyx

Ridnour can help as a backup point, so it's not like his contract is too bad. I'd like the Spurs to move Bonner for a wing in this case. I guess Wilson Chandler is available, but his contract is awful.

I just don't see how Neal is more appealing than JJ Barea. Barea hits threes, but he also plays with hustle and more drive. I can't see him being kicked out of the rotation. If that above trade goes through, though, there should be enough room for everyone there.

I've just been reading Zach Lowe's piece on Rudy Gay trades:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...e-will-he-land
and he implies that Minnesota might be trying to get cap room for this summer, meaning they wouldn't want to trade for Gay. In that case, doesn't Jax/Blair/Neal for Williams/Kirilenko make sense for both sides? Minnesota gets cap space (Kirilenko has a $10.2M player option for next season), and the Spurs get a defensive upgrade and a potentially great defensive smallball lineup in Tony/Manu/Kawhi (or Green)/Kirilenko/Duncan.

[Chinook]

I've just been reading Zach Lowe's piece on Rudy Gay trades:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...e-will-he-land
and he implies that Minnesota might be trying to get cap room for this summer, meaning they wouldn't want to trade for Gay. In that case, doesn't Jax/Blair/Neal for Williams/Kirilenko make sense for both sides? Minnesota gets cap space (Kirilenko has a $10.2M player option for next season), and the Spurs get a defensive upgrade and a potentially great defensive smallball lineup in Tony/Manu/Kawhi (or Green)/Kirilenko/Duncan.

If the Wolves have moved on from Kirilenko (which it really doesn't seem like they have), then trading him for Jack would make sense. But the Wolves are in the playoff race right now. so I doubt they're in hard core rebuild mode. They need wing help, so taking Jack back without having to trade away Kirilenko may be appealing to them, especially if they can get about $10-15 Million off the books by moving Barea or Ridnour with Williams.

Getting back Kirilenko would definitely be a good move for the Spurs, as they have to look for another small-forward if they deal Jack. As far as I understand, he and Parker are friends, so that helps. He's also another Durant/James/Dirk defender, which really couldn't hurt.

I just don't see the Wolvles giving him up; they'd be right back to where they were with no wing depth if they do.

[TD 21]

If Williams AND a 1st is in fact the asking price for Re , then I can't see that trade happening. The goods news is, if they're interested in Re , then it stands to reason they'd be interested in Neal too and given that the Spurs supposedly "loved him" entering the draft, you'd think there would be a decent chance of this happening.

Chinook, Neal has much better size for an SG than Barea and is a clear cut better 3-point shooter. As I said a few days ago, I think their plan is to get an SG and to move Ridnour for help at SF.

Paranoid Pop, you may be right about them not wanting to trade big for small, but they could still make this happen by adding Bertans rights or a 1st for their 2nd (which will equate to probably a 6-8 spot difference).

That may sound like an overpayment, but if Ayon gets back to where he was last season (and as I alluded to, there's good reason to think he would as a Spur), then this would be a steal to get him for a couple of assets who most likely have no chance at contributing in what's left of this team's window and who's long term upside isn't all that high.

[Seventyniner]

If the Wolves have moved on from Kirilenko (which it really doesn't seem like they have), then trading him for Jack would make sense. But the Wolves are in the playoff race right now. so I doubt they're in hard core rebuild mode. They need wing help, so taking Jack back without having to trade away Kirilenko may be appealing to them, especially if they can get about $10-15 Million off the books by moving Barea or Ridnour with Williams.

Getting back Kirilenko would definitely be a good move for the Spurs, as they have to look for another small-forward if they deal Jack. As far as I understand, he and Parker are friends, so that helps. He's also another Durant/James/Dirk defender, which really couldn't hurt.

I just don't see the Wolvles giving him up; they'd be right back to where they were with no wing depth if they do.

It's true that a Kirilenko/Jax swap would hurt the Wolves this year. They'd be far more inclined to do that trade near the deadline if they start losing a bunch of games.

I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where the Spurs would be willing to take Barea or Ridnour along with Williams and Kirilenko. We'd go back to potentially including Green in the trade, and I don't think that's worth it. Ridnour is a solid backup PG, but Barea is borderline useless to the Spurs unless they trade both Neal and Mills; even then, Barea would be a 5th guard at best.

I'm trying to come up with a Kirilenko/Williams/Ridnour for Jax/filler scenario, but the Spurs wouldn't include Green, and the Wolves probably wouldn't want Bonner. Trading Bonner would leave the Spurs with only 4 bigs anyway, one of which is a near-useless Blair.

The Spurs only have to get within 150% because they are under the tax, right? Kirilenko + Williams + Ridnour = $18.6M, so if the 150% rule applies, the Spurs would only have to send out $12.4M minimum. Jax + Joseph + Neal doesn't quite get you there. Would they take Blair as more filler? That pushes the Spurs well into the tax too, and eats up all of next year's potential cap space. I'd have to rate this deal as unlikely due to reservations from both sides, though it would be good for the Spurs this season.

[Chinook]

Well then, TD 21 would you say that Jack and Neal for Ridnour and Williams is a good-looking deal for Minnesota? If the Spurs feel confident that someone like Gelabale can step in as the back up three or that Williams can indeed play some minutes there, that trade should give the Wolves what they want. I also think the Adelman is the type of coach that Jack can respect.

I'd still hope they move Bonner, though.

[ace3g]

saw a random trade idea on twitter: Blair for Jason Collins

[Chinook]

It's true that a Kirilenko/Jax swap would hurt the Wolves this year. They'd be far more inclined to do that trade near the deadline if they start losing a bunch of games.

I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where the Spurs would be willing to take Barea or Ridnour along with Williams and Kirilenko. We'd go back to potentially including Green in the trade, and I don't think that's worth it. Ridnour is a solid backup PG, but Barea is borderline useless to the Spurs unless they trade both Neal and Mills; even then, Barea would be a 5th guard at best.

I'm trying to come up with a Kirilenko/Williams/Ridnour for Jax/filler scenario, but the Spurs wouldn't include Green, and the Wolves probably wouldn't want Bonner. Trading Bonner would leave the Spurs with only 4 bigs anyway, one of which is a near-useless Blair.

The Spurs only have to get within 150% because they are under the tax, right? Kirilenko + Williams + Ridnour = $18.6M, so if the 150% rule applies, the Spurs would only have to send out $12.4M minimum. Jax + Joseph + Neal doesn't quite get you there. Would they take Blair as more filler? That pushes the Spurs well into the tax too, and eats up all of next year's potential cap space. I'd have to rate this deal as unlikely due to reservations from both sides, though it would be good for the Spurs this season.

The 50-percent rule only applies if the receiving team is under the tax after the trade. Since that would put the Spurs over the tax, they can only take back a 25-percent increase in salaries. But Pop has said the Spurs will not go over the tax this year, so it might be best to consider that a hard cap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abpxfwm

I think that's a good deal, because it gets both teams what they need to compete better this year. The Spurs get a fourth big and a legitimate back up point, while the Wolves get shooting and a back up wing. I'd even send a first if I were RC. The Wolves may swap out Ridnour for Barea, though, which makes the deal less desirable.

For the Wolves, it even saves them some money down the line. If Jack plays well for Adelman, it could really improve them.

The real question if what to do if Jack is moved.