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Didn't watch the video, but how many mass shootings in Australia before and after the ban?
What say you Fuzzy? How's it working out for the Aussie's? Wonder if aussifankurt has any personal experiences.
Didn't watch the video, but how many mass shootings in Australia before and after the ban?
2 after if I remember correct. And how many before? Now ask the Australian people if they take a mass shooting, which extremely rare, over the sudden rise in crime.
IIRC, the ban in Australia came after various episodes of mass killings since the 80's, culminating with the Port Arthur massacre. In a way, the ban was somewhat the same kind of knee-jerk reaction you see here.
Now Australia never had the same kind of gun culture America does.
I actually don't really see Australians worked up about the ban (despite the dozen or so in that youtube). I actually see more American gun enthusiast speak about the Australian ban than Australians.
Then again, Australia doesn't have anything like our 2nd amendment either.
Last edited by ElNono; 01-15-2013 at 03:05 PM.
Again, the devil is in the details. The video claims that gun homicides are up 19% since the gun ban. The most recent stat I can find for gun homicides in Australia is 30. At that point, we're talking about maybe 5 more people being shot in a year to make that kind of percentage change.
And anecdotes can be emotional and moving, but to concentrate on the possibility strangers invading homes and murdering folk could be completely missing the point. Over 80% of the homicides in Australia were committed by someone who knew the victim, over 50% were domestic cases.
Australia's overall homicide rate in 2010 was just under half of what it was in 1990, up a bit from its all-time low in 2004. I'll see what I can find for the other crimes.
Let me know what you find as I'm at work and can't really do any research. I'm more interested in the jump in overall crime, not the murder rates.
Looking at four categories of violent crime rates, compared to 1996:
- Assault is higher, currently declining after peaking in 08
- Robberies are lower after rising to a peak in 01
- Sexual assault and kidnappings are pretty much flat.
Property crimes in dwellings, on transport and on streets or paths is has declined since 2005. Property crimes in retail is also lower in that time but less significantly.
Now there are plenty of studies saying the ban did or didn't have an effect on these crime rates. So who knows?
I got the figures mainly from reports at http://www.aic.gov.au
I have to say the same thing the last time you posted this youtube. You really should get some new material rather than an Australian Shooters Association propaganda reel.
I have extensively gone over the figures from a decade before the ban all the way to recently. You once again bring up anecdotes and cherry picked stats in place of comprehensive analysis. It's tired bull .
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf
I will AGAIN post a study that was done by two Australian universities and is once AGAIN a comprehensive analysis as opposed to your tripe. Do you have any idea where the stats they came up with or are you satisfied with random youtube from an unknown source that found a retire police officer and about 10 "concerned citizens?"
In 1997, Australia implemented a gun buyback program that reduced the stock of
firearms by around one-fifth (and nearly halved the number of gun-owning households).
Using differences across states, we test whether the reduction in firearms
availability affected homicide and suicide rates. We find that the buyback led to a
drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80%, with no significant effect on nonfirearm
death rates. The effect on firearm homicides is of similar magnitude but is
less precise. The results are robust to a variety of specification checks and to instrumenting
the state-level buyback rate.So as last time: comprehensive study or random youtube? Controlled statisitics from defined sources or random youtube stats from who knows where?In the decade following the NFA, there has been a substantial drop in
firearm deaths in Australia (Figures 1a and 1b). Firearm suicides have
dropped from 2.2 per 100,000 people in 1995 to 0.8 per 100,000 in
2006. Firearm homicides have dropped from 0.37 per 100,000 people in
1995 to 0.15 per 100,000 people in 2006. These are drops of 65% and
59%, respectively, and among a population of 20 million individuals,
represent a decline in the number of deaths by firearm suicide of about
300 and in the number of deaths by firearm homicide of about 40 per
year. At the same time, the non-firearm suicide rate has fallen by 27%
and the non-firearm homicide rate by 59%.7
It is also clear from Figure 1 that firearm deaths have been falling on a
consistent basis in recent decades, while a similar trend is not as clear in the
case of non-firearm deaths.8 Firearm deaths—both homicide and suicide—
are currently at exceptionally low levels by historical standards. The
previous low in the rate of firearm suicide was in 1944, at 1.63 per
100,000. The firearm suicide rate has been below that level since 1998.
The firearm homicide rate is considerably more volatile, but for the years
2004 to 2007 it has been recorded as at or below 0.15 per 100,000 people. It
has dipped below 0.2 per 100,000 on only one other occasion, in 1950.
Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 01-15-2013 at 05:46 PM. Reason: TSA has poor reading comprehension
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/arou...d_gun_control/Studies have tracked a reduction in gun deaths in Australia since the 1996 reforms, particularly in suicides. The journal Injury Prevention reported in 2006 that the risk of dying by gunshot had halved in Australia in a decade.
In 2010 in Australia, there were 0.1 gun murders per 100,000 people, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, less than half the rate of a decade earlier. In the United States the murder rate was more than 30 times higher, at 3.2 per 100,000.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99310073291506During the study period, 1860 homicides occurred in the three counties, 444 of them (23.9 percent) in the home of the victim. After excluding 24 cases for various reasons, we interviewed proxy respondents for 93 percent of the victims. Controls were identified for 99 percent of these, yielding 388 matched pairs. As compared with the controls, the victims more often lived alone or rented their residence. Also, case households more commonly contained an illicit-drug user, a person with prior arrests, or someone who had been hit or hurt in a fight in the home. After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.
This from the New England Journal of Medicine. Notice how they talk about controlling variables and not EZ-Bake Over stats analysis?
Note the bolded portion only says homicides.
Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 01-15-2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: TSA has poor reading comprehension
they don't need them. one round would virtually blow the shrimp away.
School of Public Health, University of Sydney, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia chimes in:
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365.shortMain outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.
Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of subs ution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.
Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.
Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 01-15-2013 at 05:40 PM. Reason: TSA has poor reading comrehension
Fuzzy, these all have to do with gun crimes, I'm more interested in the rise or fall of all other crimes.
like shoplifting?
I really don't give a what you want. They also quantified both in many cases. L2Read. I'll bold the parts to help.
Nono is right, don't really know anyone who cares about the gun ban, don't really know anyone who's pro and against guns, most people don't seem to care. No mass shootings since Port Arthur as far as I know but that was a ed one. Our gun culture (if there even is one) is probably like Canada, most guns used are for hunting - so many wide expansive properties in the countryside, the farmers need guns. I've only come across one person that I can remember who lives inner city and owns a gun
Thanks Chump for actually answering my question, unlike Fuzzy who's running around like a chicken with his head cut off giving me homicide stats I never asked for. And he tells me to learn to read
I find it strange I can find just as much saying the ban works as I can saying the ban doesn't work.
This is what I mean when I talk about your megalomania. The gun control debate is not dictated by you. I have shown you multiple sources from both sides of the issue that get to what they have found to have a causal relationship. Every time you just ignore then and only accept information and discussion in the form that you deem appropriate and it's always simpleminded bull . When it comes down to it though I know that you have zero experience in statistics and to the best of my knowledge you have zero experience in public safety or criminology.
It's pretty obvious that you are just doing this special pleading so you ignore everything and then fall back to "more guns" derp derp "less crime" derpa derp. Now you want people to look the up for you. Is it so difficult to look up Australian crime stats? or are you too stupid to figure it out?
Fuzzy, let me break it down for you. I started this thread and wanted opinions about the crime that was said to be on the rise, as mentioned in the video. If you want to discuss the homicide stats start your own thread. Having said that I do appreciate you being my research , even after you've repeatedly said you won't. If you want to continue being my research , please stay on the topic at hand.
I posted something about the effectiveness of the Australian weapons ban but I will cry like a if you talk about the ban in a different way than I want.
How is wanting to talk about something other than homicides crying? You're testing my patience research , stay on topic or I may have to do some research of my own.
More youtube videos then? And for me to be your research you would actually have to read what I posted and be able to understand it. We both know the answer to that is you won't and you can't.
when your research deals with the topic at hand I'd be more than willing to discuss it with you. You are making this more difficult than it should be. Notice how chumpdumper kept it on topic in this thread, you should try to as well.
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