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More like prototypical human being
Was thinking about this the other day... cheat, lie, steal... Is everything fair game when you're going for the stash of cash?
Back in the day, he was hailed as the 'Role Model for Success' by Capitalism Magazine (link)
What say you?
More like prototypical human being
I don't know about that, z0sa. I would admit that perhaps characterizing it as American-only is unfair.
Oprah is sure spewing out the publicity to build audience ratings and sell premium-priced advertizing spots for the Lance-The-Liar show Thursday.
I don't know how one can come to the conclusion that the prototypical American lies, cheats, and steals at their job. In my experience, those are the few bad apples, but they are far from typical.
Meh, doping is rampant, not just in cycling but all sports. Lance made the mistake of sticking to his denials too long.
I see why you would say American, considering LA is American after all. What I mean is, someone put in his position. Like Bartleby just said, doping is rampant in all sports. Human nature, particularly in the highest levels of compe ive sports, is seeking to gain an advantage any way possible. Unfortunately for Armstrong, he allowed himself to be marketed as a Good Guy instead of a Normal Guy when he knew he was the latter and not the former.
Lance Armstrong: All American Boy
Numerous organizations and sponsors will all ask for a return of their money because of Armstrong's fraud. The state of South Australia is planning to demand Lance return millions in appearance fees. The Sunday Times of London will seek the $500,000 it paid him in a settlement. He's likely to be sued again by SCA, a Dallas company that Lance took to court to pay him a $5 million dollar bonus. SCA had refused on grounds that Armstrong cheated.
Any apology from Armstrong needs to be made personally to people like Betsy Andreu and her husband Frankie. Or Greg Lemond, the first American to win the Tour de France. Or Emma O'Reilly, the masseuse who reported Armstrong's use of drugs. Armstrong later implied she was just a woman of disrepute with other men. Or journalist David Walsh who wrote "L.A. Confidentiel" and whose employer was sued by Lance. Lemond had a bike brand with Trek that was doing well for 13 years until he called out Armstrong for cheating. And Trek, an Armstrong sponsor, stopped producing the Lemond series of bikes.
Possibly no one took more grief from bullyboy Lance than Betsy Andreu. Her husband Frankie was one of Lance's best friends and rode with him until the two of them testified that they heard the troubled Texan admit to a doctor he had used performance-enhancing drugs. The confession came in Indianapolis when Armstrong was being treated for cancer. Lance constantly attacked the Andreu's publicly, made it all but impossible for Frankie to get sponsors or even work, and suggested that Betsy was simply troubled and jealous of Lance's success. Instead, she was a truth-teller who refused, unlike many people, to get wrapped up in the lie being told by Lance Armstrong. She won. He was defeated by a diminutive, principled woman, who was the first to stand up to him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-mo...comm_ref=false
nothing specifically American about professional biker doping. The entire sport, all riders, are pretty much compromised.
It's not that, the average american just doesn't have a shot at that kind of money regardless of how much they would be willing to lie, cheat and steal.
The question is closer to what happens when they do have a shot, and how far are they willing to go for a home run.
I might be wrong, but I do think we live in a society (especially in America) where greed and 'winning at any cost' is not frowned upon, but actually encouraged and viewed as the 'business-savvy' thing to do.
I don't particularly buy that because other people do it, he should get a pass.
To be fair, as I explained to mingus, the 'American' context has more to do with the kind of American values/message is out there more than his nationality.
But you give a good example, you see this as Good Guy vs Normal Guy. Shouldn't it be Good/Normal Guy vs Bad Guy?
"Lance Armstrong's $5 Million Offer Rejected By Government"
The ultimate cost of Lance Armstrong's doping and deception has yet to be determined but it will be high and not just in terms of his reputation. The Sunday Times wants more than $1.5 million from Armstrong relating to a libel settlement in 2006. South Australia wants him to pay back appearance fees. Back home, the U.S. government rejected Armstrong's offer of more than $5 million to make amends for fraud allegedly committed against the U.S. Postal Service, according to CBS.
The U.S. Postal Service paid out $30.9 million to Armstrong's cycling team from 2001-2004, according to do ents obtained by ESPN in 2011. Armstrong won four of his seven Tour de France les during this period. He has since been stripped of all les after a report by the USADA detailed a long history of doping during his career. According to CBS, Armstrong's offer of $5 million and his cooperation in an investigation to settle up with the government was rebuffed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2483370.html
/thread
So basically what you are saying is that the "everything has a price" aphorism applies especially to Americans? I think it applies to humans across the board pretty evenly.
I think we live in a society where in certain circles of society it is not frowned upon, of course. But to suggest as you seem to be that the entire or majority of population has gathered behind that messages? I don't buy it.
" 'winning at any cost' is not frowned upon"
at any cost, and
winning is the ONLY thing
-- venerated Vince Lombardi
As we see in the financial sector, winning $Bs by cheating is not even punished. There's no enforcement, no accountability.
Why would Lance come out now and admit it?
He has everything to lose and nothing but a clear conscience to gain from what I can tell.
Actually, I'm specifically referring to cases where the pursuit is mostly commercial.
Fair enough.
From what I read he wants to compete professionally again, and that was not possible for him after the USA cycling association (or whatever is named) investigation.
Wow.
What an idiot, if true.
This. In America the dollars at stake may be bigger and the spotlight may be brighter than other parts of the world, but I don't think you can say the average American is any more predisposed to lie, cheat and steal than anyone else on the globe.
Yeah, I remember when he decided to stop fighting the charges. I thought the interesting part of that was the quote of ”overwhelming evidence of doping”.
I guess if that part is true, then he is trying to confess first before the evidence comes out?
I don't care how tired he might be of fighting it, I think it's still his best play. Unless he's also tired of being rich.
Clearly that is how you view America but using LA as an example is ridiculous. He has been stripped of his les, publicly humiliated, and may likely face federal prosecution what more needs to happen to him to convince you that america "frowns upon" his actions?
The problem with Armstrong is not that he cheated in a sport full of cheaters. The problem is that he tried to destroy anyone who told the truth about him. Unless he intends to do something major to remedy how he ruined other people's lives, then I have no interest in anything he has to say.
Stop letting him cash in with this story, among other things? I also haven't seen the "public humiliation" you describe. Most of what I've heard is what Bartleby said... "hey everyone does it!"...
The federal prosecution part is news to me, though. Thanks for pointing that out.
might have cheated on this game but he's still a warrior in life, and yes he's a prototypical american from whom you see the strong for ude through hardships, and the genuine hope for a better life, things that all americans share in common.
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