NYTimes: Lack of Transmission Lines Is Restricting Wind Power

[Wild Cobra]

Perhaps not anything but most things ........

I suspect that your BBQ did more to change the climate than hundreds of wind farms ever could.

I seriously doubt that.

Now I agree with CC's statement that wind farms probably create no more change than other anthropogenic causes, but really now... Did you read either link I posted? I read several besides the two. The effects can possibly be even more than I thought they might be.

[Wild Cobra]

To be fair you do have an extensive history of taking up untenable positions, especially as it pertains to science.

Really? Example please. I think if you read my wording of my positions, you will take back your statement.

Wind is caused by pressure gradients across the globe no? This is in turn due to unequal heating if memory serves. Could you give the less informed an idea of how many wind farms we would need to change those pressure gradients by even one part in a trilion?

You want me to quantify this? My position is it makes a difference. I'm not claiming any particular amount. There would he a huge range could anyone even attempt to quantify it.

Ever study Fluid Dynamics? Think of the windmills as resistance/restrictions. This in turn reduces the volume of the air flow with the same delta-P. (pressure gradient with no change.)

Did you read the part of one article I linked about the turbulence vs. laminar flow? Do you know what laminar flow is? How turbulence changes things?

I don't know why I'm responding. It isn't as if you are disagreeing with me. You are just trying to get me to take a position I cannot protect. Why don't you instead just agree that my words have merit, instead of acting like you are?

[Wild Cobra]

---dp---

[FuzzyLumpkins]

fluid dynamics

Why don't you talk about refilling a parts bin or changing out a toilet? You know stuff that you actually know how to do.

[Wild Cobra]

fluid dynamics

Why don't you talk about refilling a parts bin or changing out a toilet? You know stuff that you actually know how to do.

I do understand fluid dynamics. For you to act as if it doesn't apply shows you clearly do not understand.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I do understand fluid dynamics. For you to act as if it doesn't apply shows you clearly do not understand.

So do you restock it yourself or do you have to fill out forms or otherwise have someone else do it?

[Wild Cobra]

So do you restock it yourself or do you have to fill out forms or otherwise have someone else do it?

I see you have absolutely nothing of value on the topic.

Typical!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fluid dynamics if studied properly requires the knowledge of things like PDEs which the NS equation bases itself off of. You do not have the requisite knowledge for this. We have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on the flow equations before when talking about the ocean currents before. I remember.

There are literally classes that go over just the NS equations as well as others for the underpinnings to get a good grasp on it. Now if you wanted to get any decent sort of proficiency at it you would need some training like that, there are certainly textbooks and the like that you can go through too.

We know that you did none of those things. Instead you read most likely just the wiki but perhaps a few links that you found off of wiki or a google search. Now you are regaling us with your EZ bake oven and if we are unlucky, napkin math pretending like you are in a position to understand things that take years to understand. You do this all the time and are known for it.

It is stuff like this that makes me mean to you. You don't have any clue wtf you are talking about but think throwing out wiki terms you can fake your way through it. Now tell me about how I am making assumptions, dimwit.

[Wild Cobra]

Fluid dynamics if studied properly requires the knowledge of things like PDEs which the NS equation bases itself off of. You do not have the requisite knowledge for this. We have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on the flow equations before when talking about the ocean currents before. I remember.

There are literally classes that go over just the NS equations as well as others for the underpinnings to get a good grasp on it. Now if you wanted to get any decent sort of proficiency at it you would need some training like that, there are certainly textbooks and the like that you can go through too.

We know that you did none of those things. Instead you read most likely just the wiki but perhaps a few links that you found off of wiki or a google search. Now you are regaling us with your EZ bake oven and if we are unlucky, napkin math pretending like you are in a position to understand things that take years to understand. You do this all the time and are known for it.

It is stuff like this that makes me mean to you. You don't have any clue wtf you are talking about but think throwing out wiki terms you can fake your way through it. Now tell me about how I am making assumptions, dimwit.

Assume as you wish about my knowledge. I don't mind because you don't matter.

I'm curious though.

How long and many sites did you Google to come up with that? It sure took you some time.

[Wild Cobra]

We have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on the flow equations before when talking about the ocean currents before. I remember.

You never did get that right. You were arguing points that didn't apply, and I kept telling you that, but no... You wanted to argue surface dynamics when I was speaking of the thermocline included and the long period flow. Not the short period dynamics you kept going to.

You never get it right, and think you win, but you always punk yourself without realizing it.

[MannyIsGod]

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You never did get that right. You were arguing points that didn't apply, and I kept telling you that, but no... You wanted to argue surface dynamics when I was speaking of the thermocline included and the long period flow. Not the short period dynamics you kept going to.

You never get it right, and think you win, but you always punk yourself without realizing it.

I presented the UW study that modeled the cycle of oxygenated water through the thermal layers. They were using NS PDE functions and described the air surface interaction as a function of wind speed.

You said the ocean was like a big soda just fizzing with the warming drives CO2 argument. This had about as much insight as your input - input * efficiency = output stupidity. They use math, you open a coke.

You can posture all you like but we both know your full of as does everyone else including Manny who is laughing at you.

[Agloco]

Really? Example please. I think if you read my wording of my positions, you will take back your statement.

I'd be bound to get a headache and you, unlikely to get a retraction.

You want me to quantify this? My position is it makes a difference. I'm not claiming any particular amount. There would he a huge range could anyone even attempt to quantify it.

Your question implied that the global climate could be adversely affected by this activity. If you're going there, I'll insist that you quantify the effect I pointed out.

Ever study Fluid Dynamics? Think of the windmills as resistance/restrictions. This in turn reduces the volume of the air flow with the same delta-P. (pressure gradient with no change.)

An untenable scientific position tbh, much like that which you claim to have never had.

Did you read the part of one article I linked about the turbulence vs. laminar flow? Do you know what laminar flow is? How turbulence changes things?

No.Yes.Yes.

I am also quite certain that there is abundant laminar air flow between your ears.

I don't know why I'm responding. It isn't as if you are disagreeing with me. You are just trying to get me to take a position I cannot protect.

Negative.

Why don't you instead just agree that my words have merit, instead of acting like you are?

Probably because I'm skeptical. Call me crazy if you will.

[Wild Cobra]

I presented the UW study that modeled the cycle of oxygenated water through the thermal layers. They were using NS PDE functions and described the air surface interaction as a function of wind speed.

You said the ocean was like a big soda just fizzing with the warming drives CO2 argument. This had about as much insight as your input - input * efficiency = output stupidity. They use math, you open a coke.

You can posture all you like but we both know your full of as does everyone else including Manny who is laughing at you.

That's right, pick, choose, and mix things up. It's obvious you are clueless.

[Wild Cobra]

Did you read the part of one article I linked

No

Then you are a waste of time like Fuzzy is.

[Winehole23]

so many disagree with you. are they all a waste of time on that account?

[Winehole23]

it's not like you ever refused to read something, or do your own homework, right? because we weren't worth your precious time to back up your own bs, when you find the time, unerringly, to put everyone else down all day long.

CC: CosmicCowboy

[Wild Cobra]

so many disagree with you. are they all a waste of time on that account?

When they just disagree without bringing in any facts to back them up? Yes. I asked a question, then later searched and found the idea of my question had more validity than I thought it would. They fail to read any material, but just say I'm wrong.

[Winehole23]

They fail to read any material, but just say I'm wrong.

where do they get off?

[TeyshaBlue]

When they just disagree without bringing in any facts to back them up? Yes. I asked a question, then later searched and found the idea of my question had more validity than I thought it would. They fail to read any material, but just say I'm wrong.

Does the asinine position of wind turbulence from windmills affecting the climate even warrant a factual response? Typically, thoughts of ranging behaviors would act as a filter to prevent a question like that. If we were to round up all the outdoor fans, would they affect the climate? What about the aggregation of turbulence from Beagles wagging their ears? Stupid questions should never see the light of day if there were any rational filtering going on.

Filtering appears to be a novel concept to you.

[MannyIsGod]

If a turbine spins its blades in China, does it rain in New York???!!?!!?!?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

[Wild Cobra]

This topic triggered a minor interest of mine, so I started doing a little searching. In post #6, I touched on the idea of HVDC. The thing with using HVDC power distribution is the distance capability. Our massive AC power distribution system is a nightmare. Once you go any appreciable distance, the synchronization of AC power starts diminishing. You don't have that problem with HVDC. The problem associated with HVDC is it is very expensive, compared to stepup/stepdown transformers and their associated components. There aren't many, but the US power companies have been building HVDC converter facilities that fix the phasing issues. In my opinion, more long haul HVDC transmission lines need to be built. There are over 20 HVDC systems in the USA, with I think 4 more being built. These The Hudson Project is expected to be complete this year. Others are out as far as 2017.

Of all of these in operation, most are just B2B converters. These are important as they allow exchange of electricity between unsynchronized grids. There are seven HVDC power line systems in operation, with the 8th scheduled to be online this year. This new one will be the third system to Long Island. The others are:

Pacific DC intertie
3,100 Megawatt from The Dalles, Oregon, to Los Angeles, CA.

Path 27
1,920 megawatts from Delta, Utah, to Adelanto, California.

CU Powerline
1,000 megawatts from Underwood, North Dakota to Rockford, Minnesota.

Square Butte
500 megawatt from Center, North Dakota to Duluth, Minnesota

Trans Bay Cable
400 magawatt from Pittsburg, California to San Francisco, California

The thing with HVDC is that a single standard could be used and tie all metropolitan and major sources together. The conversion stations are more costly than standard AC systems, but the benefits for long haul power can be justified for large wind and solar facilities. There is no phasing problems like there is with the numerous AC power grid systems.

[Agloco]

When they just disagree without bringing in any facts to back them up? Yes. I asked a question, then later searched and found the idea of my question had more validity than I thought it would. They fail to read any material, but just say I'm wrong.

lulz Fluid Dynamics.

Bernoulli is rolling over in his grave.

[Wild Cobra]

lulz Fluid Dynamics.

Bernoulli is rolling over in his grave.

If you say so Fuzzy.

I have a thought.

Why don't you tell me what you are assuming I am wrong about, so I can put your sorry ass in your place by proving you wrong.

Or...

Are you going to be as bad as Fuzzy and Chump?