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Kool just bitter cause his boy got pushed aside by the King.
Son Lebron is on another level at the moment and he's making it look effortless ala 1991 Jordan.
Guy Lebron is not more talented than MJ and It's not even close.
He's much more athletic though.
Kool just bitter cause his boy got pushed aside by the King.
Son Lebron is on another level at the moment and he's making it look effortless ala 1991 Jordan.
I think the top 10 should be (in order of when they played):
Wilt Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Comments on controversial issues...
Do you value the peak or longevity? I think both are important, but peak performance should be considered more. This is a list of the best players in history, not necessarily the most-accomplished players. To me, the word "best" (or "greatest") entails the fundamental skills and abilities of the player. If a certain player exhibited amazing skill level for a short period of time, that should be given heavy consideration in a discussion about the most skilled players.
Should Russell be there? Everyone feels very strongly about the issue one way or the other. In particular, everyone takes a side in the Wilt vs. Russell debate. I am squarely on the Wilt side. I consider Wilt to be the true overall GOAT. In terms of skill, there is just no doubt that Wilt was better than Russell. Russell had better teams; Wilt was the better player.
Should Hakeem be there? This depends heavily on whether you value the peak or longevity. Since I give more weight to the peak, I think Hakeem should definitely be there. He was simply a complete basketball player in the mid-90s. He had every skill a center should have, teams were built around him, he dominated individually, and his teams were dominant as a result.
Should Kobe be there? In general, I give big players priority over small players. In order for Kobe to make the list, he has to beat one of the following: Oscar, Bird, Magic, Jordan, or Lebron. In my opinion, he doesn't beat any of them overall. He is certainly one of the top 10 scorers of all time, but when you include other factors (rebounding, assists, defense), he moves down the list considerably.
Should LeBron be there (i.e. the initial question of this topic)? After last year, I think he should. The 2011-12 NBA season was for LeBron what the 2002-03 season was for Tim Duncan: utterly legendary. He led his team to a championship, won Finals MVP, won regular season MVP, made the All-Defensive team, and was the most efficient player in the league. Very few people have done all that in one year. LeBron is among them, and hence he is among the top 10 players ever.
Older players or newer players? There is definitely a recency bias in how we all view players. That is, we tend to remember recent players more vividly, so we think they were better than older players. There are many factors to consider when comparing across generations, but I do think the recency bias can be justified to some extent. I have more players from 1980-forward in my list, but I think people should very carefully consider some of the older players before they make that assumption.
Other players who deserve consideration: Julius Erving, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Bob Pet , Karl Malone, David Robinson, Moses Malone.
Last edited by Arcadian; 01-19-2013 at 08:45 PM.
Kobe would take a all over Oscar Robertson or Jerry West, tbh..
You proved he faced one that wasnt a honky, but the majority of his compe ion, was against 6'5 honkies in an 8 team league in the 50's without free agency on stacked teams, where all he had to do was monkeyball on defense. You're only as good as your compe ion, scrah.
Stalin putting StrengthAndHonor through the gulag
We just have to agree to disagree. Wth is a scrah lol.
MJ could play SG and SF (SG best ever, SF good). LeBron can play SG good and SF as one of the best ever. However, LeBron can also play PF at elite level, and PG like an all-star PG.
About Russell, in some years people will look at Duncan's numbers and they will say Kobe was better. But imo that's not the case, Kobe's more focused in individual acomplishments so his stats look good on paper, but he needs prime Shaq or prime Gasol/Odom/Bynum to win championships. In the end, the questions remains if the Lakers won that 5 les because of Shaq and the defensive attention he commanded, or because of Kobe. In the same way the Lakers bigman rotation in 09 and 10, gave the Lakers huge rebounding differential in every game and highly efficient offense, to bail Kobe out.
While I didn't saw Russell play, it seems to me that he knew exactly how to win and what has to be done to win all those championships.
What is there to dissagree, scrah? Everyone knows honkies are at basketball. All the Africans in today's nba can attest to that and Glorified Ben Wallace faced a whole league of them.
Don't know about that. White coaches are still running this league.
Of course you know. Sure the coaches are white, but who's the running majority on the court?
Just to play devils advocate, Kobe's probably one of the most fundamentally sound player in that list along with Jordan and Duncan. Based on your reasoning, Kobe should be in the Top 10.
Agree, so why shouldn't be Kobe in the list considering he's basically one of the most complete basketball player of his generation?
I feel like people's standards for Kobe are always a notch higher. They talk about his assist numbers but his average has been above the league average for a shooting guard since like, forever with the exception of Wade who was listed as a SG but was functioning as a PG for the Heat during that 3 year stretch. His rebounding numbers though not great is nothing to sneeze at for someone who plays that position (MJ's rebound average is only a hair better). Defensively, yes, he's been overrated but he did play elite defense for 3-4 seasons, all this during their championship run.
And what do you mean beat Oscar, Bird, Magic, Lebron? In what aspect? Because one on one, we all know Kobe would on these guys
Well I always give the game generals credit for the win. I mean, , you're Stalin. Who gets all the credit for those executions? You or your soldiers? Get your together scrah.
Not worth reading.
lol watered down...if anything is watered down, its jordan and the jordan stoppers...lol
lol James is no lock for top 10 GOAT.
Who was LeBron's Pippen in Cleveland? Who was his Rodman?
He is, but it doesn't necessarily follow that Kobe should be in the top 10. All it takes is for 10 other guys to be even better. Frankly, he might be my #11 if I had to rank them. He just barely misses out. No matter how you cut it, several great players have to miss out because of this arbitrary designation of "top 10." (Well, it's not totally arbitrary, as humans have 10 fingers, but it seems arbitrary in the context of listing basketball players.)
I meant "beat" them in the sense of ranking higher on a list.And what do you mean beat Oscar, Bird, Magic, Lebron? In what aspect?
I don't (and can't) know that. But I'm not going to assume he would.Because one on one, we all know Kobe would on these guys
I don't know that either. In the case of Robertson, I highly doubt it. I would rank Kobe above West, though.
I lold at 'possibly Top 5'. Open your eyes s, we have never seen a player with the combination of speed, size, and strength that King James has...and its damn hard for me to imagine that its humanly possible for a more physically gifted player to come along. Add the Kings courtvision/awareness and how coordinated he is to the equation, and the likelihood of another LeBron coming along becomes that much smaller. Not an MJ hater but the King will go down as the GOAT. Kobe and even Timmy D will go down as blips during the LeBron era too tbh.
BTW Dirk is borderline Top 20 imo. Somewhere in the 20-25 range, mainly because of his defense and because at no point (even during 2011 or his MVP season) was he unanimously considered the best player in the league like the other greats were.
Ilgauskas and Mo Williams.
Who was LeBron's Pippen in Cleveland? Who was his Rodman?
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