NBA: Lebron James is a lock for the TOP 10 GOAT list

[Narutoluva]

strengthandhounours getting on, while ting the bed

[StrengthAndHonor]

I responded to all the "issues," this was just pointing out how hilarious it is to criticize someone else's logic when you're the one making facts up.

So back to the question. Why is Kobe's B2B Finals MVP not a good reason why he doesn't belong the Top 10 list? Give me something with substance and lets proceed.

[Narutoluva]

So back to the question. Why is Kobe's B2B Finals MVP not a good reason why he doesn't belong the Top 10 list? Give me something with substance and lets proceed.

lakerfan pretending to be cliperfan, remove the rapist nuts of yo chin for increased credibility and iq

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So back to the question. Why is Kobe's B2B Finals MVP not a good reason why he doesn't belong the Top 10 list? Give me something with substance and lets proceed.

The burden of proof doesn't rest on me here to prove the negative but the reason it's not a good reason in and of itself is because the two finals MVP awards are only about a 12 game span and the only compe ion for the award is other players on his team or the other team. They have nothing to do with how he played in the previous playoff series or in the regular season.

[Clipper Nation]

So back to the question. Why is Kobe's B2B Finals MVP not a good reason why he doesn't belong the Top 10 list? Give me something with substance and lets proceed.

Well, for starters, he was handed one of them on name alone after he shot 6-for-24 in Game 7 and had to be bailed out by Pau and Metta

[baseline bum]

What the is this weaker conference horse ?

The Celtics even minus Garnett and the Magic were both much better in 2009 than the 2-seed () Nuggets, Spurs, Rockets, Trailblazers, Mavericks, etc. That was the worst western conference in years.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Well, for starters, he was handed one of them on name alone after he shot 6-for-24 in Game 7 and had to be bailed out by Pau and Metta

So, who in your opinion should win the Finals MVP? I'm really curious to know, because that information you gave me just doesn't cut quite it. Serious response only.

[StrengthAndHonor]

The burden of proof doesn't rest on me here to prove the negative but the reason it's not a good reason in and of itself is because the two finals MVP awards are only about a 12 game span and the only compe ion for the award is other players on his team or the other team. They have nothing to do with how he played in the previous playoff series or in the regular season.

But don't you think these 12 games holds a lot more value than the one played in 82 games? Not a lot of teams gets to play those finals 7 games in June. The fact that a player endured 82 games + another month or so of grinding it out in the playoffs and keeping that same if not better production should tell you something.

[Cry Havoc]

But don't you think these 12 games holds a lot more value than the one played in 82 games? Not a lot of teams gets to play those finals 7 games in June. The fact that a player endured 82 games + another month or so of grinding it out in the playoffs and keeping that same if not better production should tell you something.

Given that criteria, it hurts Kobe more. He only has 2 Finals MVPs out of the 7 he's played in. Pretty damning to be honest, I bet that's the lowest ratio for any star player in history.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Given that criteria, it hurts Kobe more. He only has 2 Finals MVPs out of the 7 he's played in. Pretty damning to be honest, I bet that's the lowest ratio for any star player in history.

Ok, now this IMO is a good and better argument.

[007nites]

Should LeBron be there (i.e. the initial question of this topic)? After last year, I think he should. The 2011-12 NBA season was for LeBron what the 2002-03 season was for Tim Duncan: utterly legendary. He led his team to a championship, won Finals MVP, won regular season MVP, made the All-Defensive team, and was the most efficient player in the league. Very few people have done all that in one year. LeBron is among them, and hence he is among the top 10 players ever.

This.

[Proxy]

Given that criteria, it hurts Kobe more. He only has 2 Finals MVPs out of the 7 he's played in. Pretty damning to be honest, I bet that's the lowest ratio for any star player in history.

It's irrational to penalize him for playing before his prime with a prime Shaq

[Cry Havoc]

It's irrational to penalize him for playing before his prime with a prime Shaq

He's been in 5 Finals where he clearly wasn't the best player, and been dominated in the playoffs multiple times. Hard to make a case for him being a top 10 player of all time when that's the case.

[TD 21]

As I've been saying for years, Olajuwon is the most overrated player on the Internet..his peak was elite, but his overall career has many blemishes, yet he's revered as some type of God on forums, tbh..

There's a noticeable difference between top 10 peaks and top 10 careers..longevity plays a significant factor on the list for overall careers..Kobe, for example, is a lock for the top 10 careers, but I'm not sure about top 10 peaks..Olajuwon is the opposite..

As for The King, last year's version of Lebron was #2 on the peak list IMO, only behind '91 Jordan..

Exactly. People often confuse overrated for not great or even good, but no one with an ounce of knowledge would claim he wasn't great. He's just not as great as he's made out to be.

How are you "not sure about top 10 peaks", with Bryant? He clearly didn't have a top ten peak.

I'd still give '03 Duncan the slight edge over '12 James, for the simple fact that Duncan had a greater effect defensively/rebounding wise. I know James can't help the fact that he's three inches shorter, but at the same time, Duncan shouldn't be penalized for that.

As far as James' all time ranking, he's already easily inside the top ten and when it's all said and done, he probably ends up second or third. But that's not exactly breaking news. The more interesting cases are Durant and Paul (I'd say Wade too, but he's already fringe top 20).

[Proxy]

He's been in 5 Finals where he clearly wasn't the best player, and been dominated in the playoffs multiple times. Hard to make a case for him being a top 10 player of all time when that's the case.

Saying it's a "hard case" seems like a stretch. Career highlights and and awards per wikipedia seem to make it a relatively easy argument, tbh. His playoff statistics don't match with your assessment on him getting "dominated" in the playoffs either.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Sorry but LeBron is not ending in the Top 2 or 3. It would need a monumental shift from a performance pov at this point to erase those 2 horrible Finals disappearance, especially 2011 where he joined 2 other Superstars to win a le only to shrink at the last minute against another perennial choker (Mavs)

[Cry Havoc]

Saying it's a "hard case" seems like a stretch. Career highlights and and awards per wikipedia seem to make it a relatively easy argument, tbh. His playoff statistics don't match with your assessment on him getting "dominated" in the playoffs either.

So who's out of the top 10, then?

[Cry Havoc]

Sorry but LeBron is not ending in the Top 2 or 3. It would need a monumental shift from a performance pov at this point to erase those 2 horrible Finals disappearance, especially 2011 where he joined 2 other Superstars to win a le only to shrink at the last minute against another perennial choker (Mavs)

You're a poster. Get off Kobe's .

[StrengthAndHonor]

So who's out of the top 10, then?

I'd take Olajuwon out tbh. Great center but Kobe's longevity is just better than his 2 year peak.

[StrengthAndHonor]

.

You seriouly think Lebron is a Top 2-3 player? I mean come on. You have to be 15 years old or below to even consider that. You'd get laughed at everywhere except here.

[JoeTait75]

I'll give Lebron that. He did had a great series but its all pointless since they are heavily favored to win the East at the very least and he failed to elevate his 60 win team against a pedestrian team.

Orlando had a better team than Cleveland, regardless of record. Or at any rate they matched up so well against the Cavaliers they might as well have been better.

It wasn't LeBron's fault the Cavaliers lost that series. If he hadn't hit that circus shot at the end of Game 2 they would have been swept.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Orlando had a better team than Cleveland, regardless of record. Or at any rate they matched up so well against the Cavaliers they might as well have been better.

It wasn't LeBron's fault the Cavaliers lost that series. If he hadn't hit that circus shot at the end of Game 2 they would have been swept.

So how do you explain the following year where they lost to a even lower seed? Are we just going to keep piling these excuses?

[JoeTait75]

So how do you explain the following year where they lost to a even lower seed?

He quit on his team. That's what happened.

2010 and 2011 are black marks on LeBron's resume. No one would argue that. Except maybe for Harlem Heat.

[StrengthAndHonor]

He quit on his team. That's what happened.

2010 and 2011 are black marks on LeBron's resume. No one would argue that. Except maybe for Harlem Heat.

Well at least you're consistent. Props to that.

[Cry Havoc]

I'd take Olajuwon out tbh. Great center but Kobe's longevity is just better than his 2 year peak.

I could see that. I mean, Olajuwon was a better defender, better on offense, better intangibles, didn't self-destruct hall of fame teams. He was a 23+10+3 blocks and ~2 steals a game guy for 12 years straight. If I were building a franchise from scratch I would take Hakeem 52 weeks out of the year over Kobe if I had them to draft as rookies. It wouldn't even merit conversation. Hakeem won a le with nothing around him. Kobe's teams with multiple HOFers fail. No comparison.