again Duncan has played for the same coach his whole career...Kobe's had like 7 or 8 different coaches....I could go on and on why Duncan's had it easy compared to Kobe
when did they do what they did to attain HOF status? You guys are truly intellectual light weights and don't even realize it...nothing like being a fool and not being aware I guess...ambchang going in on killakobe, who's still making excuses for Kobe.
Yes. Missing the PO with 3 HOF teammates and $100,000,000 in salary is the same as missing the playoffs as a rookie, or with for a roster.
Kobe = most overrated player in NBA history.
Pau will not get into the HOF...Nash will but not based on what his 40yr old self is doing right now...and at this point Dwight only has potential to get there...so enlighten me again please..you cats don't know basketball...
You guys need to understand that both Kobe and Kobe nut huggers don't consider what will make the Lakers better. They consider what will get Kobe his 6th ring. So, the conversation can never devolve into Kobe being the focal point of the criticism. Regardless what Kobe does, he's never the reason they lose. It's got to be someone else. That mindset is a major difference between a team fan and a player fan, what's best for the player, not for the team.
Tired shtick, but that's how careers go when you don't throw your coach under the Buss.
Here:
I never said you said it, I said it make it sound like, huge difference. Coupling that with the at least 50% quote sounds like a huge Teflon attempt for Kobe.
So when two players are close, the decider should be the quality of their teams? What the does that qualifier has anything to do with anything? Why would you ever use a team qualifier for personal rankings? And no, Duncan/Shaq/Kobe were not close, Duncan and Shaq were clearly a strung above.
Bigs have more impact on the game pre 2002, Stern made sure he can sell his perimeter players with rule changes, and don’t act like you don’t know it.
And no, Shaq was way out of his prime in 08, Kobe’s still in it, or within range of it. This is like saying Hakeem missed the playoffs with the Raptors or Ewing with the Sonics. Any reasonable person would not count those years as a negative to those players hanging on.
I would never count Kobe’s 96 to 99 numbers against him, you will never hear me say “Kobe averaged 7.6 points in one season, and no top 10 player would average 7.6 points a game, because everyone and their nephews know that it’s not anywhere within Kobe’s prime in those years. To top it off, the Lakers’ general suckitude was due to Kobe not being able to get along with Shaq, with all the I will sign with the Clippers bull .
Is he really past his prime? Didn’t he just said this is one of his best seasons? Did he miss his prime because his team is sucking, or because he is leading the league in scoring by shooting uncharacteristically well from the field? I think you lost me in there by labelling this is an off-prime year for Kobe.
See link http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207476
And you will view missing the playoffs and not making the WCF as the same kind of failure? Aren’t their degrees of failure? As in getting a 5% on a test is worse than getting a 49% on a test?
And you show me where I said you said the entire fault is on Pau. What I did say is that after talking about how Kobe deserves at least 50% of the blame in two losses out of a so-far very disappointing season, your solution is trading Pau to solve 3 Lakers problem that has nothing to do with Kobe.
A player being and not being in his prime has no bearing? Which planet are you on? Oh, Jordan sucks, look at his Wizard years, he missed the playoffs! Look at Magic in 95 in his comeback, let’s take those 15 games and pick apart his legacy. Being in his prime or not has a huge impact on a player.
And yes, Kobe is still playing in his prime, he is, in his own words, playing the best he has played in a long while, I am not sure how else you can dismiss this as not being his prime, unless you are ready to say that 09 and 10 is either not his prime, or that it was more than a long while.
I have to disagree with you on this one as well. I have said time and time again how overrated Kobe is, and this season is showing why. He requires an extremely tough to assemble team for him to be successful. His contributions to the 00-02 Laker teams were wildly exaggerated, and his need for dominant frontlines to succeed has been ignored for two long. Without those, he is a highly flawed player who can barely take his team to any kind of success.Thing is you can be a great poster but your hate blinds you here. Of course I have some Kobe bias, to a degree, Im a Laker fan ...but your hate clouds your posting ability mightily. You make some good points but your disdain for Kobe makes you take such wild leaps to where you take something i said and infer all kinds of crap behind it. I think I would enjoy you discussing something non Kobe or Duncan related. Like Maybe Isiah vs. Cp3 vs. stockton. Or GP vs. Kidd
But duncan and Kobe? your posts are e
Outside of Hakeem, there isn’t one single top 10 player who is even remotely this teammate dependent, and Hakeem was successful with his 86 and mid 90s rosters, two very different types of teams. Not to mention his 94/95 teams were incredibly easier to assemble that those 09./10 Lakers (those Lakers team would not have been possibly assembled if it wasn’t LA or some insane stroke of luck).
- 1st off Hi DMC
- 2ndly - Blow Me
- 3rd - It's not about careers but rather markets, SA and LA are no comparisons...Kobe's stats as a "2nd option" in LA are far more impressive than Duncan's a "1st option" in SA...those are facts.
- SA ran the Spurs like a mom and pop shop and it worked for them..I know in your quest to prop Duncan up you're prone to ignore the obvious but don't kid yourself on how hard it is to win les through multiple coaching and teammate changes...
hey ambchang got dam homie what's up with writing a ing novel...your opinion ain't that gotdam important... !!!
Kobe says that he will keep overshooting, cause there is always a chance the baskets will go in eventually.
What a hero. What a player.
Man I swear some of you Spur fans are closet Laker fans. Here the Lakers are, 6 games under 0.500 - in other words lottery bound (at the moment but time will tell) - yet at least 80% of all NBA forum threads has something to do directly with the Lakers. This thread is no different which is funny considering the Spurs are perched atop the WC (or damn close to it) or Miami is atop the EC and are defending champs.
Look at game threads. You can just look at the length of it and tell whether the Lakers are losing or about to lose (multiple page threads usually are a tell tell sign). No other non-playoff teams get the attention the Lakers get.
Could it be that Kobe has more rings than Duncan ever will have? Or could it be that he trumps Duncan head to head in RS and playoff series victories? Or is it that the Lakers have 4xs the rangs as the Spurs? Whatever it is, this obsession with the Lakers is not healthy. Some of you need to get laid or get a hobby or something. Spending 10 hours of your waking days talking about the Lakers can't be good. To each his own I guess.
Non Laker fans that hate lines up Dr. Buss' pockets just as much as avid Laker fans. I guess this obsession in a way is kind of good tbh.
LOL Amb,
1. Kobe is in his prime ... Dude wasnt even in his prime in 2010 but whatever. He was good but prime?!
2. So we gonna trade Kobe instead with his bloated contract and no trade clause?! How about Dwight are only all-star caliber player under 30? Trading Pau (for me) isnt about blaming Pau it's about making my favorite team better. I would trade Kobe if it helped us win a le but who is gonna take on that contract and offer us assets?
3. So because Kobe says he is playing near his prime ... that means he is? Yet he is an egotistical jerk with poor leadership skills but you taking his word as gospel?!
4. LOL Using the 40 year old Magic and MJ examples .... rings dont' matter and Duncan is above Kobe because I said so ...great arguments
5. I agree Amb you have some good points but you keep qualifying about primes or making injury excuses where you see fit. Im not saying that stuff shouldnt matter in the grand scheme but those are excuses. When Kobe is retired I think the whole picture and story should be factored in missing the playoffs in 2005 etc. But over-reacting to a poor half a season and judging a players career behind it is foolish. And , if Kobe is near his prime all these years in doesnt that stregthen his overall career ranking?
6. LOL Cryhavoc's reading comprehension I said repeatedly in this thread injuries and team-mates were no excuse. Show me where I am making an excuse for Kobe. Also weak ass posters always have to dyck ride other posters arguments ...just saying. In fact amb who you slobbin just took me to task for NOT allowing in those BS excuses ... make up your mind fellas am I excusing Kobe or not?
Hey unkool got dam what's with writing pointless thread? Your general pointlessness needs no more confirmation.
Oh my bad I forgot ....according to Amb ... Kobe is near his prime ... so we can trade Kobe for a SG and a SF ...
lol tosb kobe per killa ...
Not saying that, but he is much closer to TOSB than his prime ... Only the most blind Kobe fanbois or Kobe himself would disagree ...
Kobe is far from perfect but let's be real...if Kobe was in his prime he would have likely dropped 60 on Wade and Lebron...dude was pretty much unstoppable in his prime. Lebron would have fouled out trying to guard him (and perhaps vice versa) but Wade would have gotten torched like it was nobody's business...I will let Shaq answer the question since he played with all 3...
I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it“People ask me all the time: If you had to choose between DWade and LeBron, which would you take? Which one would you make the CEO? It’s really a tough question. LeBron is a better decision maker. DWade will hit more last-second shots. Lots of superstars in their position want and need to take the last shot. LeBron is more of an ‘opportunity’ CEO. He’s not afraid to take the last shot, but he won’t hesitate to pass it to an open Mike Miller either. So where do these two guys measure up against Kobe? Kobe is a scientific dawg. He works out every day, practices every day. Most of the other stars are just dawgs, not scientific dawgs. Me, I’m a freak-of-nature dawg because of my size. LeBron could be a scientific dawg like Kobe, but he’s got a lot going on like I did, so that’s preventing him from being one.” - Shaq
I would agree with that...if he was close to his prime we wouldn't be even having this discussion
kobe was never in his prime
those 2 years after shaq era, was mainly a ball hog volume statpadding meaningless stats...it is what it is
Start thinking about ping pong balls.
Only if they were sharing a hotel room.I know we disagree here but I watched these cats closely in their primes and a Prime Kobe would have straight up embarrassed Lebron..Shaq was just trying to be nice about it
Funny that you few are the same legriders that said this team was stacked. Kool sucked Howard's all Summer. Now you are lottery bound, you all act like it was obvious all along, that you were sold a bum steer.
Saying a player is not tosb is being a hater? How's the living condition on nebula k-231? Because there is no way you are from this galaxy.
hey I didn't suck no ...but I was sold a bum steer...right up my ass...and that don't feel good
other thing is Nash is done..deep inside
overtaken by them mavs
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