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Have you ever watched Moses Malone?
BTW, in that list, forgot John Stocton, he should be above Garnett and Rick Barry.
You can't go wrong with Olajuwon and Kobe. They both have a healthy list of record breaking accomplishments and records, both were winners and global icons. Personally I'm putting Kobe over Olajuwon simply because he had a lot more memorable performance throughout his career and frankly, I enjoy watching wing players more than big men. I was lucky enough to witness Olajuwon play in 93-95 and he really took over the league in the playoffs beating 3 HOF big mean along the way. Kobe was different. He had some dominating series against the Spurs, Portland and Sacramento. Won 3 championships then the break up happened. No one thought Kobe would ever win another le after Shaq left and for him to overcome that and bring LA back to 3 straight NBA finals was impressive.
So its just preference really. Do you take a guy who had a pretty solid career but peaked and dominated late or the other guy whose had a roller coaster ride but won in any type of role given to him.
Have you ever watched Moses Malone?
BTW, in that list, forgot John Stocton, he should be above Garnett and Rick Barry.
Yea Moses gets forgotten a lot, and I don't get why. Absolutely disgustingly good basketball player.
I agree but I saw the past his prime still brutally effective fo fo fo ... Moses. Not sure where he fits but I did mention him earlier because he has some impressive numbers. I do know that he kicked Kareem's a$$ in 83 .... PArish's too IIRC ...
His performance was not quite HAkeem over David ...but it was close. Many here thought Cap was done after that series ...yet I think he got 1 more Finals MVP after ...
Wont re-hash ...my list ... but many act as though Hakeem was only dominant from 93-95 which is not true. Watch his series vs. the Sonics in 86-87 playoffs. they just showed it on NBATV on his birthday this week ... guy was unstoppable against a young Alton Lister and am old but very Physical Mo Lucas.
Hakeem is underrated by some and overrated by some. Truth lies in the middle but I think he has a legit case over Shaq. I do prefer rings ... so I give shaq the nod ...because again if it's close for me, they matter.
But Hakeem has a very strong case. He is the better skilled offensive player (though less dominant) and defense which many Spur fans claim they appreciate ...it's not even Close. Hakeem was a better help and individual defender ...Shaq was better though at holding low post position on defense (and offense)
He scored almost 38 points a game in the series against Dallas in 88. Dallas won 3-1 (and had a REALLY good team), but that is absolutely absurd to score like that. Hakeem was sick.
Not a lot of people have.
I'll tell you this though. I started posting on basketball sites as early as 2003, this was before the PER and win shares era and I vividly remember his name being part of the list, year in and out. Ive read hundreds of takes every year from some of the most knowledgeable basketball minds in a decade now and every year the list changes, Moses' name keeps getting taken over by players in this era and most people agreed. Its not that he's a lesser player now, its just that the players who keeps taking his spot had better careers (Starting from Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and now Lebron)
That is another great series of his. So much flip-flopping to defend their own franchise players in the forum. People say Olajawon peak was too short to put duncan over him ...which I dont even have a problem with. Again if it's close I sady duncan's 4 rings in a pretty compe ive era gives him a stong case ... but people act like it's not close or that Hakeem doesnt deserve the nod ...
Like the Clip fan stated Hakeem (if rings are discounted) can make a strong case over Kobe and tbh(im not making it) versus every top 10 player since 1980 except maybe MJ, Magic and Kareem. I think after those 3 it's all pretty close Bird, Shaq, Kobe duncan, Lebron (soon), Moses Isiah all have strong cases to be over some player on most folks top 10 list. I think Lebron may join that first 3 club down the road ... but I love how absolute everyone acts on such a subjective subject.
well put
I'd put Isaiah Thomas ahead of Stockton. And no way should Stockton be ahead of Rick Barry, imo. Barry had Larry Bird-like skills and led a team that really wasn't that good to a Championship. The only mark against Barry is that he was a massive bag, but that shouldn't affect his place in terms of skill.
Not real media-friendly and only won the one le w/Philadelphia, imo. But he was an absolute beast. He tore up KAJ in the '81 playoffs.
Well according to some people here. baggery is a knock on your legacy.
They guy played till the mid 90s, and was in his prime in the early to late 80s. I am sure quite a few people have watched him play, and if you haven't, go watch some tape before you saying that having him above Duncan and Shaq is stupid. If you are too lazy to do so, and judging from your post on this board so far, lack the requisite knowledge to understand the game even after you watched it, go to basketball-reference.com, type in "Moses Malone" in the Player Search function, then look through his stats and accomplishments. Then go to wikipedia.org, type in "Moses Malone" in search, and read his bio a little. Then perhaps go to google.com, and do the same. It would really benefit you rather than reading 2nd hand regurgitated information from other people.
Rare time we agree. I actually wouldn't have a problem putting the Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem in the same group. It switches in and out for me day to day. But I will say that Hakeem does require a very specific group of players around him to be very successful, Duncan is a little more versatile, while Shaq was just more dominant, yes, even more so than the 94/95 Hakeem, who was mighty dominant in those days.
Bird, to me, is in the Jordan, Magic, Kareem group. People forgot how good he was because he was slow and white, but watch the guy play, you cannot believe some of the stuff he does. Despite so slow, he is always two steps ahead of everybody else.
I actually had Stockton above Barry because Barry was a gigantic bag against his own teammate, probably more so than Kobe does nowadays. baggery against your own teammates leads to team dissent, and over time, undermines the compe iveness of your team. Have to penalize a trait that undermines a team's chances of winning. Stockton is just a doubchebag against the compe ion, one of the dirtiest s bag to ever play, but hey, he was trying to win.
When your baggery turns a squad stacked with Hall of Famers into an atrocious lottery team, it's a knock on your legacyPERIOD
You're not convincing anyone lol. Moses doesn't have a better career than Duncan and Shaq. That's ing stupid.
So you haven't watched him play at all, and your argument is that you have read from others on some ranking lists?
Then your backup argument is ... none?
Maybe, really, I can't put this in writing without smirking, but perhaps you should really watch and study how he played in his heydays, how he destroyed KAJ in his prime, how he lead the 6ers to a 12-1 record in the finals, and how he smashed Bird, Magic and KAJ in his prime, how he led a 40-42 Rockets team to the finals, how he is the best offensive rebounder the league has ever seen, by far, how he won b2b MVPs on two separate teams (3 total), how he puts up 31/15 in a season, you know things like that.
Next thing we know, you come in here saying Lebron > Jordan because you overheard a conversation in your local grade school washroom.
You just love to contradict yourself. Before Moses, the back2back argument is laughable. Now its valid? Hahaha.
Tell us why Malone has a better career than Shaq and Duncan. You haven't really said anything to convince.
There is a difference between Finals MVP and regular season MVP.
Seriously, I know you are trying to troll, but please, bring some quality to your trolls, this is just getting pathetic. Don't pretend you do not understand the premise behind your flawed b2b finals MVP crap. Please.
Why do I have to convince you? You haven't convinced me that I have to.
And no, being ranked higher in the GOAT category doesn't mean that person has a better career. Sam Jones had a of a career, arguably one of the best, but he is not anywhere close to top 10 all time.
You came out with a list that deserves explanation. You came up with this . Even if I just rely on googling this crap, no one would put Moses above Shaq and Duncan in this exclusive list. I don't need to explain anything. Shaq and Duncan both have better peaks and longevity. I'll stop there and let you figure out the rest.
Yeah theres a difference alright. Finals MVP has more value than regular season MVP.
LOL, stretch agrees with me that Moses Malone deserves to be on the list, and you are just a nobody troll who came up with some of the crappiest takes I have seen on this board in a while (and that really is saying something).
Neither Shaq nor Duncan has 3 MVPs, neither of them ever had a 30/15 season. Malone was on 11 All-NBA teams, 1st in offensive rebounds, #9 on the ELO ratings, similar, if not better win shares than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan, insane statistics.
Just haul your lazy ass and read some bit, will you? Don't just come in here asking people to prove things when you haven't proved anything and kept making up so that people have to respond. Alright?
Yes, compe ion against 24 players is tougher than compe ion against 360 players, got it.
Cedric Maxwell and Joe Dumars are better than Charles Barkley, John Stockton, David Robinson and Kevin Garnett. Right.
BTW, what happened to the me contradicting myself bit? Do you read? If not, try it, it's FUNdamental.
Last edited by ambchang; 01-23-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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