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Ooop[s...
Just realized a mistake I made in the power calculations, and the correct numbers work in my favor.
Anyone think Fuzzy can find my mistake?
Fuzzy, you are stupid.
In the electrical industry, wire becomes expensive. Look at copper prices today.
If I take a 1000 watt 2 wire 120V circuit, hot and neutral, I need two wires that will handle 8.33 amps of current. 120V x 8.33A = 1000W
If I take a three wire 240V 1000 watt circuit, 2 hots 180 degrees apart and neutral, I need three wires that will handle 4.17 amps. I just cut my cross sectional need of wire by 25%.
Now if I need 1000 watts and use a three phase system, our standard voltage is now 208 volts. We now need four wires, three hot and a neutral, but each only needs to handle 6.41 amps. This is because each leg will handle 1/3 of the 1000Watts (333.3W) and 208 volts means we need 1.6 amps each. We only need 38.46% as much wire for the 3 phase system compared to a single phase system, or only 51.3% as much wire as a 240V system.
If we relate our cross sectional total wire size for an electrical run:
2 x 8.33 = 16.67.
3 x 4.17 = `12.5.
4 x 1.6 = 6.42.
We need so much less wire for a three phase system than a single or split phase system. Sure, more wires, but a much smaller wire gauge.
Please tell me you think Tesla was ignorant of this fact. He not only knew a three phase system required less wire for transmission lines, but for motor winding size and efficiency as well.
Three phase systems are more simply efficient and smoother.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 01-23-2013 at 10:43 AM.
Ooop[s...
Just realized a mistake I made in the power calculations, and the correct numbers work in my favor.
Anyone think Fuzzy can find my mistake?
Ok Fuzzy, it's apparent to all that answering the OP would just cause you to contradict yourself, and I realize that isn't really fair. I've got a few new questions.
I pick up my new Springfield semi-automatic ultra compact pistol today after going through the 10 day wait period here in CA. I've been carefully studying the data you've provided and I am a bit nervous now. When I pick this semi-automatic firearm up, should I be concerned about increased thoughts of suicide? What should I do when the criminal thoughts creep in to my mind? I'm to the point now where I'm not even sure I want it and am thinking of just turning it in to one of those gun buy backs just to make everyone feel safer. What would you do in my shoes Fuzzy?
Professor Part Changer
1000w
Thank you for proving that you are absolutely untrained in circuit analysis and are just making up as you go along. You mistake is your approach and you are full of . It's an AC circuit with 120 degrees separating the phase. It's a balanced load and you are making the wrong assumptions. You suck at this.
Next time, model three sources in parallel connected to three loads in parallel. Then do the same with 2. Compare and contrast the circuits. That is the correct way to analyze AC circuits. Take your napkin math and shove up your ass, parts changer.
You need to be worried about the assault capability of the gun, since it's a semi-auto it can kill everyone in your home and probably a dozen or so more. Make sure you keep a close eye on it.
Question:
Thank you for proving that you are absolutely untrained in circuit analysis and are just making up as you go along. You mistake is your approach and you are full of . It's an AC circuit with 120 degrees separating the phase. It's a balanced load and you are making the wrong assumptions. You suck at this.
Next time, model three sources in parallel connected to three loads in parallel. Then do the same with 2. Compare and contrast the circuits. That is the correct way to analyze AC circuits. Take your napkin math and shove up your ass, parts changer.
Should the X0 bond of a Delta-Wye transformer be grounded?
WC: Well, from what I recall a delta-wye (Δ-Y) transformer is a type of three-phase electric power transformer design that employs delta-connected windings on its primary and wye/star connected windings on its secondary. A neutral wire can be provided on wye output side. It can be a single three-phase transformer, or built from three independent single-phase units. The term Delta-Wye transformer is used in North America, and Delta-Star system in Europe.
One possible delta-wye transformer configuration.[1]
Delta-wye transformers are common in commercial, industrial, and high-density residential locations, to supply three-phase distribution systems.
An example would be a distribution transformer with a delta primary, running on three 11kV phases with no neutral or earth required, and a star (or wye) secondary providing a 3-phase supply at 400 V, with the domestic voltage of 230 available between each phase and an earthed neutral point.
Fuzzy: There you go with your parts changer math. You're showing your ignorance again since you have to know whether the transformer will be used to step up or step down. You have no training in the fine arts of electricity, keep swapping out RF matches you parts monkey.
WC: Well of course, ankle biter, that much I do recall but it seems to me that a High-leg delta (also known as wild-leg or red-leg delta) is a type of electrical service connection for three-phase electric power installations. It is one of the several types of three phase service setups. It is used to provide an additional voltage that is half the phase to phase voltage.
My math might be a bit rusty, however I seem to recall that you should consider the low voltage side of a 120/240 V high leg delta connected transformer, where the 'b' phase is the 'high' leg. The line-to-line voltage magnitudes are all the same:
Because the winding between the 'a' and 'c' phases is center-tapped, the line-to-neutral voltages for these phases are as follows:
But the phase-neutral voltage for the 'b' phase is different:
This can be proven by writing a KVL equation starting from the grounded neutral:
Note: Writing the KVL equation going the other way, the same magnitude is found, though the phase angle will of course be different.
Advantages
Where the three-phase load is small relative to the total load, two individual transformers may be used instead of the three for a "full delta" or a three-phase transformer, thus providing a variety of voltages at reduced cost[weasel words]. This is called "open-delta high-leg"[improper synthesis?], and has a reduced capacity relative to a full delta.[1][2][3]
Disadvantages
One of the phase-to-neutral voltage (phase 'B') is different from the other two.
Don't quote me on this, but that's how I remember it.
Fuzzy: Wrong.
Yet here you are in a thread designed to troll the out of you.
lol you went back and read it again. Mission accomplished.
I'm done with you, I don't have time for this
Yet he keeps crawling back. I really enjoy how he is trying to reverse troll me by not answering my questions and having me keep asking them, when in reality it just keeps proving what a hypocritical pussy he really is.
You voluntarily turn in your guns yet fuzzy? Do you part, make the world crime free!
Wow...
Thank you for proving that you are absolutely untrained in circuit analysis and are just making up as you go along. You mistake is your approach and you are full of . It's an AC circuit with 120 degrees separating the phase. It's a balanced load and you are making the wrong assumptions. You suck at this.
Next time, model three sources in parallel connected to three loads in parallel. Then do the same with 2. Compare and contrast the circuits. That is the correct way to analyze AC circuits. Take your napkin math and shove up your ass, parts changer.
Your level of incomprehension is unbelievable.
I believe that's required, though I was never an electrician, and haven't studied any practical grounding/bonding/shielding in over 20 years. If you don't bond it, and use a neutral, then you will have a hot neutral.
I've never thought of the three independent transformers, but the diagram you provided agrees. I have seen several commercial systems and all of them are like the diagram you furnished.
Interesting. I had to look the "high-leg" up. Never come across that before, but then, automation equipment isn't supplying or using home use voltages.
It is possible one of our transformers do that. It's a part of the building maintenance, and I'm not familiar with the specifics. I need to remember to ask our building maintenance guy.
I don't get it with him. Most the stuff I talk about, I know from experience. I make a mistake here and there... So what... I have probably forgotten more on many topics than many people have ever learned. The Fuzzy does nothing but look for fault in others. He accuses me of acquiring my knowledge on the internet, but it appears it is he, who looks things up, and doesn't understand what he is speaking of.
Nice wiki location.Question:
Should the X0 bond of a Delta-Wye transformer be grounded?
WC: Well, from what I recall a delta-wye (Δ-Y) transformer is a type of three-phase electric power transformer design that employs delta-connected windings on its primary and wye/star connected windings on its secondary. A neutral wire can be provided on wye output side. It can be a single three-phase transformer, or built from three independent single-phase units. The term Delta-Wye transformer is used in North America, and Delta-Star system in Europe.
One possible delta-wye transformer configuration.[1]
Delta-wye transformers are common in commercial, industrial, and high-density residential locations, to supply three-phase distribution systems.
An example would be a distribution transformer with a delta primary, running on three 11kV phases with no neutral or earth required, and a star (or wye) secondary providing a 3-phase supply at 400 V, with the domestic voltage of 230 available between each phase and an earthed neutral point.
Fuzzy: There you go with your parts changer math. You're showing your ignorance again since you have to know whether the transformer will be used to step up or step down. You have no training in the fine arts of electricity, keep swapping out RF matches you parts monkey.
WC: Well of course, ankle biter, that much I do recall but it seems to me that a High-leg delta (also known as wild-leg or red-leg delta) is a type of electrical service connection for three-phase electric power installations. It is one of the several types of three phase service setups. It is used to provide an additional voltage that is half the phase to phase voltage.
My math might be a bit rusty, however I seem to recall that you should consider the low voltage side of a 120/240 V high leg delta connected transformer, where the 'b' phase is the 'high' leg. The line-to-line voltage magnitudes are all the same:
Because the winding between the 'a' and 'c' phases is center-tapped, the line-to-neutral voltages for these phases are as follows:
But the phase-neutral voltage for the 'b' phase is different:
This can be proven by writing a KVL equation starting from the grounded neutral:
Note: Writing the KVL equation going the other way, the same magnitude is found, though the phase angle will of course be different.
Advantages
Where the three-phase load is small relative to the total load, two individual transformers may be used instead of the three for a "full delta" or a three-phase transformer, thus providing a variety of voltages at reduced cost[weasel words]. This is called "open-delta high-leg"[improper synthesis?], and has a reduced capacity relative to a full delta.[1][2][3]
Disadvantages
One of the phase-to-neutral voltage (phase 'B') is different from the other two.
Don't quote me on this, but that's how I remember it.
Fuzzy: Wrong.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/1...8b60c2f21a.png
Do another WC wiki front.
It's a skit.
However an unbonded X0 is somewhat common.
AmazingI've never thought of the three independent transformers, but the diagram you provided agrees. I have seen several commercial systems and all of them are like the diagram you furnished.
Interesting. I had to look the "high-leg" up. Never come across that before, but then, automation equipment isn't supplying or using home use voltages.
It is possible one of our transformers do that. It's a part of the building maintenance, and I'm not familiar with the specifics. I need to remember to ask our building maintenance guy.
I don't get it with him. Most the stuff I talk about, I know from experience. I make a mistake here and there... So what... I have probably forgotten more on many topics than many people have ever learned. The Fuzzy does nothing but look for fault in others. He accuses me of acquiring my knowledge on the internet, but it appears it is he, who looks things up, and doesn't understand what he is speaking of.
I can see that if you aren't using it as a neutral, but would it be allowed if neutral was being used?
OK, now that I realize what you did, I have to read it again.
Sorry for being slow on your humor. Hard to tell with text.
If you want noise to find your counterpoise, you might consider it, especially in a digital environment. Some applications don't require it so electricians won't pull the neutral line and instead will take it to rebar as a sucker rod. If you've ever put an ammeter on that bond though, you can tell that it's doing it's job if the building is counterpoised properly. A lot of problems can be alleviated with a good digital electrical environment. I am not referring to a counterpoise for RF applications.
I'm not dealing with communications any longer. Not since '92. As for your "skit..." Yes, it was funny. Not real accurate, but funny.
I often wonder if you even read what you're responding to.
I read it, I just thought you were addressing the parts to us. Not that you were implying that was our words. I was surprised you went through that whole wiki quote, and I was a bit confused. I just thought I would roll with it. I guess I should have asked your intent.
I do now wonder if you agree or not if there is less mass of cabling for needed power a given power requirement, at three phase over single or split phase. Fuzzy seems not to understand.
Fuzzy why do you keep starting threads with your TSA troll calling yourself out?
As a generic statement, it's already a given. It's easily proven with a simple search. I didn't want to get into a discussion about basic electricity. It's always a pissing contest and there's no one to judge the winner.
Because cheesecake really is cake and not a cus pie like those ignorant fools like to claim. Cobbler sucks.
True, and why fuzz thinks he wins.
Cobbler is great. Key lime pie is good too.
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