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We're talking about 8-10 minutes a game where Manu is the primary playmaker because we don't have a true PG. It's an issue, but I don't see it as the team's biggest weakness.
Huh? I said what I mean. I said I think the back up PG is not "no problem" as DT said. You said you agreed with DT's post. Am I missing something here?
We're talking about 8-10 minutes a game where Manu is the primary playmaker because we don't have a true PG. It's an issue, but I don't see it as the team's biggest weakness.
We apparently don't agree on the meaning of DT's post, so when you summarize your understanding of his post and ascribe that same understanding to my position we have a difference.
Actually mills playing the point isn't really bad at all.
I see. I just thought that when DT explicitly stated it's not really an issue and when I stated that is what I disagree with him on and you said "I don't really understand the objections" that you were debating that point.
This is what he said and I don't really see how that can be interpreted any different. He didn't just say "here's the best way to overcome the issue", he, as you can see, said "it really isn't that big of a problem" - hence the disagreement.
For the record, I never said the backup pg spot wasn't a concern. I said it wasn't that big of a problem. As in the inconsistent play of Diaw / Splitter, the overall health of the team, etc etc are all problems the Spurs will have to overcome. I'm just saying that if managed correctly, the backup PG spot can be handled better then it was last season even though we have the same roster. Tony needs to play 38 minutes per game. That leaves 10 minutes with him not on the court and therefore I don't see how it's more of a problem then some of our other issues. Ginobili at the backup PG spot could work to be a very good thing IMO and as he gets older I actually think he's better suited in this position.
I can see where you're coming from. Like I said, this is nothing like the Bonner/Blair situation where the bigs after TD just wouldn't be able to get it done.The lack of a proper back-up pg has a bit of a domino effect though in my opinion but I guess I'm also looking at it from the perspective of not needing the 3 point shooters to show up every game to win. If the Spurs get beat in the post-season, I think the second unit's production will be a factor (along with the big 3 running out of gas).
Two bolded parts are not the same.
Sorry folks when I posted this i didn't realize i would give the impression that Tony and Manu aren't capable of handling the PG duties. i was more speaking of the fragility of not having a back up plan. Most know that Manu is capable of playing PG. I felt better last year when Ford was on the roster. Also during the Spurs last le year when they had two back up true point guards. Joseph seems to be the only true point on the payroll outside of Parker, with apologies to Mills.
Last edited by Strategic; 01-28-2013 at 12:27 AM.
What? "It's not really an issue" & "It really isn't that big of a problem" is materially different how? Also, either way, you seemingly completely ignored that point either way and when it was brought up again, you said you interpreted his post differently by essentially saying he just said what the best solution is with the current roster. The only point I disagreed with was the bolded part.
Since Mills isn't very good at distributing the ball and passing, yes it would be a problem for me in the playoffs.
I'd agree with most all of that.
Defensively, we're extremely reliant on Duncan and Tiago protecting the rim. Obviously, this isn't any new discovery. Other teams don't rely as much on that, since they have young and capable defenders on the perimeter. We really don't. We have good defenders, but we don't have the Battier/Sefolosha/Trick or Treat Tony Allen kind...
Other teams also have younger legs that can play more minutes. Ibaka can play 40 mins no problem, Collison can also play extended minutes for them. Asking Tim to do that for us over a 7 game series is going to be problematic.
They are different, I didn't ignore the point and it was not at all obvious what the exact nature of your disagreement was until after my first post in this thread.
and tbh this is more of a concern to me then the backup PG situation (if handled correctly).
Pop has to decide what he wants out of that backup PG spot. I would say all you need from a backup PG is the ability to hit a jumpshot and keep the defense honest, the ability to look for others, and playing good defense.
Yeah, but no one can guard James or Durant anyway. And given the level that Duncan and to a lesser extent, Splitter, are playing at defensively this season, I'd take them over what any other contender has to in terms of rim protection. In fact, they're probably the best defensive big tandem in the league. The only true weakness they have is the pick-and-pop.
The minutes thing is what probably does the Spurs in against the Thunder again (that and/or officiating). The fact that Durant and Westbrook can play virtually unlimited minutes and almost all of their other key rotation players can go well over a quarter without a break, is a major advantage and it helps obscure the fact that they're not a deep team. I could see the Spurs starters outscoring theirs head to head, but if their big four average something approaching 20 more mpg than the Spurs big four does, it likely won't matter.
Well, I spoke about depth on that position, not how those two match up with anybody else. Like I said, foul trouble on either or both can really hurt us, because the drop down, especially when it comes to rim protection, it's major. It goes hand in hand with the minutes thing, because neither Tim or Tiago seem to be able to play that many minutes.
Which takes me to another point: I understand in the case of Tim that his minutes are limited, but I really don't like that Tiago isn't getting more burn. He's at 23 mpg right now and, IMO, he needs to build up that stamina of extra minutes and get used to the extra load. He's young, there's no reason not to. The alternative is playing Blair/Bonner which are useless come playoff time, or small ball, which might work against some teams, but I don't think it's ideal. Maybe Pop is waiting until March to amp his role up...
Nono, judging by Pop's comments, he is legitimately concerned about Tiago's health. He's pretty blunt in stating Tiago has not gotten more time over the years due to his inability to stay healthy. If that is the case, managing his minutes (along with still quite a bit of line up tinkering) I would imagine has more to do with that mindset and as the season progresses I would expect more minutes.
I understand the cautious approach with the older players, but I don't really subscribe to Pop's minute limits on younger guys. Just my personal opinion. Tiago might or might not be prone to injuries, and limiting his minutes doesn't really guarantee anything. He can get hurt the next game or mid-March. It's not like there's anything chronic with him that can be tracked down and prevented by limiting minutes.
Again, just my personal observation/opinion, I think we've been bit in the ass before having players extremely tired when they had to play an extra 5-10 mins more than they're accustomed to.
As I said, I hope Pop starts to ramp up his minutes come March... I think we're going to need those extra minutes from him when the playoffs roll around.
No need to wait until March. Tiago's minutes per game this season:
Oct/Nov (17 games/2 starts): 18.7 mpg
December (16 games/9 starts): 22.8 mpg
January (14 games/14 starts): 28.5 mpg
And those minutes have been held down a bit by a few blowouts. Tony, for example, has averaged 33.3 mpg in those same 14 January games.
Tiago is also on pace, even at 23 mpg, to shatter his personal record for minutes played in a single season.
28 mpg makes sense. I'm not saying we should ride Tiago out like an old nag but if he and Tim can combine for 64-68 mpg for the two big spots it shouldn't be bad.
Fellows,
I think all of your points about this teams short comings are true to some degree but my observation and concern about this team for the last several years has been our ability to assert ourselves physically and rebound with the better teams so that we might better control the tempo. I think the Aron Baynes move goes a long way to address that concern. If Aron can battle with the Collison and Perkins Combo we will have "improved" our ability to compete with the likes of OKC and Miami. I observed a lot of times when playing those teams..Unless were effective offensively at the end of the game...We have lacked in the capacity to control and force the tempo to our liking...Just a thought!
Last edited by Tbiggums47; 01-28-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Also Kawhi should be playing at least 35 minutes/game.
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