It is now a crime to unlock your smartphone

[DMC]

I'm in agreement on this one. And the total lack of understanding of new technologies by lawmakers is hilarious.

Almost rivals the lack of understanding firearms by the same people.

[ElNono]

There's more to this story than the mere DMCA anti-cir vention provisions.

Basically, the software that comes with the hardware is not sold to you, but licensed. And due to a few recent rulings about shrink-wrapped licenses and strict limitations on licensing and re-sale (ie:Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc.), the "first sale doctrine" is basically going by the wayside. This actually is opening a brand new can of worms, which is the re-sale of used software (or the lack of legality to do so). I was actually bummed the SCOTUS didn't take on the certioriari on that case.

[ElNono]

BTW, jailbraking is also forbidden by the DMCA, since it also applies to the same anti-cir vention clause. The DMCA however, allows the Library of Congress to provide exceptions, and jailbreaking is one of them. Unlocking was also an exception up to this year. The Library of Congress issues updates on this exceptions pretty much yearly. Don't be surprised if jailbreaking loses it's exception status down the road too.

[Creepn]

This doesn't change whether or not you've unlocked your phone or left the carrier or not - once you've signed the 2 year (3 year in Canada) agreement, they've made their money back. If I leave my carrier mid-contract, I'm not only responsible for all the hefty cancellation fees, I'm also responsible for paying back the 'subsidy' they offered you on your phone during your contract. There's no money lost on the carrier side.

And you'd be surprised on how the 'subsidized' system has been much more beneficial to the carrier than to the customer. Charging $60-70/month on a 2-3 year contract and providing a subsidized phone is more attractive than having you pay the phone in full and charging you $30/month for the same service (as is the case in many European nations). It's not like these carrier are offering you better plans if you pay full price for a phone at their stores - not only to you get a locked phone you spent $600 for, but month-to-month plans are typically not any better. In essence, they're encouraging you sign the contract and get a 'cheaper' phone with them.


Jailbreaking is still perfectly legal. This is simply about unlocking a device to be used by any carrier (can be done through an unlock code; doesn't require jailbreaking).

I'm in agreement on this one. And the total lack of understanding of new technologies by lawmakers is hilarious.

But would it be cheaper to buy a phone phone full price and paying $30 a month or would it be the same as buying a phone subsidized with the 80 bucks a month?

[LnGrrrR]

It's risk mitigation for corporate America. There's a risk in giving away a phone in exchange for a contract. The risk is you have to go after the customer for the fees of breaking the contract. I think that's where their authority should end. We cannot be put in jail for failure to pay a debt (other than child support and taxes) but we can be for thwarting a loss-leader?

I've always said that if you don't support rights you don't use no one will support rights you do.

But it depends on the ramifications of allowing it to go unaddressed. If I am given a printer on the premise that I puchase proprietary ink cartridges only, and I modify that printer so I can just use cheaper cartridges, I am breaking an agreement and also stealing from a company their built in revenue from the printer/ink service. I think that, if you acquire a device on false premises, you're stealing. If you are caught, you should be charged with theft. I don't think that should be a 1M dollar fine. Pedos don't get that much.

The phone companies could get away from this by just not subsidizing their phones. But of course that would cut into profits, so they won't do that. Which goes to show that unlocking can't be taking away THAT much money...

I personally wish there was no law regarding what you do with property you purchase, contract or not. And as others have mentioned, if that printer company isn't stupid, it would lock in the customer to paying a certain amount of years no matter what they did with the printer.

[LnGrrrR]

There's more to this story than the mere DMCA anti-cir vention provisions.

Basically, the software that comes with the hardware is not sold to you, but licensed. And due to a few recent rulings about shrink-wrapped licenses and strict limitations on licensing and re-sale (ie:Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc.), the "first sale doctrine" is basically going by the wayside. This actually is opening a brand new can of worms, which is the re-sale of used software (or the lack of legality to do so). I was actually bummed the SCOTUS didn't take on the certioriari on that case.

It would have been an interesting case, for sure. When you purchase a book from Barnes and Nobles, you're not purchasing the "license" to read the book, you're actually purchasing the book, and can do what you wish with it. However, all that common sense goes by the wayside due to ease of duplication for software. It would be nice to see what the court had to say about some of these nonsensical rules.

[ElNono]

It would have been an interesting case, for sure. When you purchase a book from Barnes and Nobles, you're not purchasing the "license" to read the book, you're actually purchasing the book, and can do what you wish with it. However, all that common sense goes by the wayside due to ease of duplication for software. It would be nice to see what the court had to say about some of these nonsensical rules.

Except when you're buying a book from Barnes and Nobles in digital format... then you're purchasing a license. The problem is most people have no idea what they're paying for.

[admiralsnackbar]

Except when you're buying a book from Barnes and Nobles in digital format... then you're purchasing a license. The problem is most people have no idea what they're paying for.

Don't get me started...

I quickly discovered just how ridiculous and procrustean ebook licenses can be when I went back to school a few years back. My final project was based around an e-textbook I'd bought precisely so I could copy and paste passages into my paper and everything was going swimmingly... until I got a nag-screen from the book's DRM telling me I had exceeded the allotted (and extremely low) amount of characters my license allowed to be copied. Lawrence Lessig needs to start trying a little harder.

[diego]

just as an anecdote... here in Chile the law just changed to the opposite- carriers are legally obliged to unlock your phone for you at no cost. If the phone was on a subsidized plan you must pay the outstanding payments, but the point of the law is that carriers can no longer lock people in to their service. the same law also makes your phone number yours, so if you want to change carriers you keep your number as well.
in the first month this law was implemented huge swaths of people changed carriers as carriers scrambled to improve their offered services.

[DMC]

The phone companies could get away from this by just not subsidizing their phones. But of course that would cut into profits, so they won't do that. Which goes to show that unlocking can't be taking away THAT much money...

I personally wish there was no law regarding what you do with property you purchase, contract or not. And as others have mentioned, if that printer company isn't stupid, it would lock in the customer to paying a certain amount of years no matter what they did with the printer.

The truth is though that no one needs to do that to a phone so it shouldn't be an issue. This generation brought this on themselves. They think other people's intellectual property should be theirs if they can figure out a way to take it. From Napster, Morpheus and more to this phone thing, corporations are finding they need laws to protect their electronic property.

[boutons_deux]

"no law regarding what you do with property you purchase,"

the corps, finance, and 1% have turned USA in to a rentier society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

[Drachen]

He's black, you have to grade him on a curve.

Not necessary, the guy I talk to most about android/rooting/etc is black. (no this wasn't a "my best friend is black" either, just that it isn't an impediment). Go look at the thread in the tech forum, there are several non-black people making the same mistake.

[DMC]

Not necessary, the guy I talk to most about android/rooting/etc is black. (no this wasn't a "my best friend is black" either, just that it isn't an impediment). Go look at the thread in the tech forum, there are several non-black people making the same mistake.

Are you serious? No way.

[DMC]

"no law regarding what you do with property you purchase,"

the corps, finance, and 1% have turned USA in to a rentier society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism

It's been illegal for a long time to make certain alterations to firearms. That's ok though, right?

[symple19]

Are you serious? No way.

whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooosh

[boutons_deux]

It's been illegal for a long time to make certain alterations to firearms. That's ok though, right?

totally different, but that obviously escapes your "maranic" ass

Regulation of deadly/dangerous material is for the general welfare and public health.

Renting/licensing, rather than selling into 100% ownership, is exclusively for extracting wealth indefinitely.

See how the Gun Religion makes you just as stupid as any Religion?

[DMC]

totally different, but that obviously escapes your "maranic" ass

Regulation of deadly/dangerous material is for the general welfare and public health.

Renting/licensing, rather than selling into 100% ownership, is exclusively for extracting wealth indefinitely.

See how the Gun Religion makes you just as stupid as any Religion?

Totally different because it doesn't affect liberals who don't own guns. My property, I should be allowed to alter it as I see fit.

Standards Deux

[resistanze]

But would it be cheaper to buy a phone phone full price and paying $30 a month or would it be the same as buying a phone subsidized with the 80 bucks a month?

Well let's use AT&T $70/month for 450 minutes and 3GB of data as an example:

Subsidized: iPhone 5 for $199 + ($70 * 24) = $1879
Outright: iPhone 5 for $649 + ($30 * 24) = $1369

They're not doing anyone any favours with these subsidized plans and like I said, once you break that contract you have to have the phone in full; don't think you can walk away with just paying cancellation fee.

, in Canada it's $179 + ($70 * 36) = $2699. You can see easily why the 2 biggest telecom companies joined forced to buy our NBA, NHL, and MLS teams.

[Drachen]

Well let's use AT&T $70/month for 450 minutes and 3GB of data as an example:

Subsidized: iPhone 5 for $199 + ($70 * 24) = $1879
Outright: iPhone 5 for $649 + ($30 * 24) = $1369

They're not doing anyone any favours with these subsidized plans and like I said, once you break that contract you have to have the phone in full; don't think you can walk away with just paying cancellation fee.

, in Canada it's $179 + ($70 * 36) = $2699. You can see easily why the 2 biggest telecom companies joined forced to buy our NBA, NHL, and MLS teams.

Also, Tmobile is the only of the big 4 who give you a lower monthly price for bringing your own phone

[leemajors]

Well let's use AT&T $70/month for 450 minutes and 3GB of data as an example:

Subsidized: iPhone 5 for $199 + ($70 * 24) = $1879
Outright: iPhone 5 for $649 + ($30 * 24) = $1369

They're not doing anyone any favours with these subsidized plans and like I said, once you break that contract you have to have the phone in full; don't think you can walk away with just paying cancellation fee.

, in Canada it's $179 + ($70 * 36) = $2699. You can see easily why the 2 biggest telecom companies joined forced to buy our NBA, NHL, and MLS teams.

Thank bejeezus for my discount. I've got 3 iPhones, 2 with the lower end data plan, one unlimited and one dumbphone for $200/mo.

[resistanze]

Also, Tmobile is the only of the big 4 who give you a lower monthly price for bringing your own phone

Exactly. They absolutely want you to get a subsidized phone, they make far more money that way. Bring your own phone/buy a phone outright? Good for you, you get the same plan.

[Drachen]

Exactly. They absolutely want you to get a subsidized phone, they make far more money that way. Bring your own phone/buy a phone outright? Good for you, you get the same plan.

T-mobile doesn't want you to go subsidized. In fact, if I remember correctly, they are getting rid of their subsidization.

(or maybe you are talking about the other three. I am unclear what you are getting at)

[resistanze]

Thank bejeezus for my discount. I've got 3 iPhones, 2 with the lower end data plan, one unlimited and one dumbphone for $200/mo.

That's good, tbh. I just got on a corporate plan for $50/mo with 6GB data and + unlim text & minutes + CID/VM. They even gave me $150 credit to port over my number and take care of cancellation fees.

But yeah, plans are horrendous here. $75/mo for unlimited minutes + 3GB data and no CID/VM

When I was in Glasgow I couldn't believe they had unlim voice +data pay-as-you-go plans for $30/mo.

[resistanze]

T-mobile doesn't want you to go subsidized. In fact, if I remember correctly, they are getting rid of their subsidization.

(or maybe you are talking about the other three. I am unclear what you are getting at)

Yes, the other 3 (and most carriers historically) I was referring to. The others are not following suit, unless 'it gets popular' or whatever AT&T said.

[leemajors]

That's good, tbh. I just got on a corporate plan for $50/mo with 6GB data and + unlim text & minutes + CID/VM. They even gave me $150 credit to port over my number and take care of cancellation fees.

But yeah, plans are horrendous here. $75/mo for unlimited minutes + 3GB data and no CID/VM

When I was in Glasgow I couldn't believe they had unlim voice +data pay-as-you-go plans for $30/mo.

I get a flat 20% off thru either att, verizon/sprint occasionally pop up in employee offers too every once in a while