Thinking that Pop's system makes bigs look better than they really are, go watch some games
That's what a good system does. While Phil Jackson is more renown for always having loaded teams, his system also maximized scrub talent. Brian Shaw and Ron Harper were corpses for LA's first le run, and Jackson was able to squeeze everything they had left out of them. Bulls teams also had their share of scrubs who stepped up: Steve Kerr, Luc Longley (the Bulls version of Splitter), etc.
How many great players in NBA history played consistently great on both sides of the ball? Just think of many of the greats over the past 30 years.
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Erving
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Wilkins
Jordan
Pippen
Olajuwon
Miller
Iverson
Garnett
Kidd
Thomas
Ewing
Robinson
Duncan
Shaq
Dirk
Pierce
Nash
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
The only ones on that list who were known for consistently playing well on both ends is MJ, Pippen, Stockton (overrated defender), Olajuwon, Robinson, Garnett, Kidd, Lebron, and Duncan. That's 9 out of 26 transcendent stars over the past 30 years. Now many of the others showed an ability to step up defensively and be at least decent when needed, but if we are honest, that is basically every single player that plays basketball. Most of the ones who don't play consistent defense, its usually because they are A) saving their energy for offense and end of game defense, B) lazy and don't really care, or C) at a disadvantage athletically.
And just how many players in the NBA right now, are leaders of their team, and also happen to be the teams top defender along with top scoring threat? The only one that comes to my mind is Lebron.
So I think you can overlook his defense a bit. Give him an elite defender like Duncan to play alongside, and perhaps his defense improves? It's not particularly easy to have a strong defensive frontcourt when you play alongside Paul Millsap, or are consistently asked to play out of position (being an undersized center).
Which things are minimal or even a disadvantage, due to MPG? Why don't you go look up the stats in terms of %'s and per 36 minute stats, and more of the advanced stats, then get back to me on that, ok?
When I say ball handling, I'm not talking about dribbling the ball up the court like a PG. I'm talking about the ability to maintain solid control of the ball when faced with double teams and traps, or athletes who like to pickpocket you instead of playing defense. Al can handle all those things better than Splitter, and those are all things that big men have to face consistently if they are looking to score points.
average
Exactly what i noticed as well lol
Your homerism impairs your judgment. It's what makes you say (and actually believe) things like Diaw>Lee.
Yep. Even Pop called him a blue collar guy. But sometimes those types of players are what's needed most on a specific team. Jefferson is certainly the better individual player, but he's not what the Spurs need right now.
I would agree with that. Splitter is still just an average basketball player at best. He might have certain needs he fits well, but is not a special player in any way.
They need more consistent wing scoring from a player who can create his own shot. Danny Green is a spot up shooter who will likely choke in the playoffs, and Manu can't be counted on to deliver a consistent 18-20 points per game any more.
The ONLY reason this trade would make sense IMO is if they knew behind the scenes that Timmy plans to retire for some reason after this season is over, to try to replace him and retool.
who is the moron that said that?
Irrelevant list tbh. Those players were way better offensively and didnt have anywhere near as bad of a rep defensively as Al does.
Splitter: 16.3 ppg, 9 rpg, 1.2 bpg, 60% shootingWhich things are minimal or even a disadvantage, due to MPG? Why don't you go look up the stats in terms of %'s and per 36 minute stats, and more of the advanced stats, then get back to me on that, ok?
Jefferson: 18.7 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 1.2 bpg, 48% shooting
Per 36 this season.
Thats not ball handling. Normally thats referred to as good hands. Hes better at taking players off the dribble though if thats what you mean, but he should be since hes a PF/C hybrid and Splitter is a pure center.When I say ball handling, I'm not talking about dribbling the ball up the court like a PG. I'm talking about the ability to maintain solid control of the ball when faced with double teams and traps, or athletes who like to pickpocket you instead of playing defense. Al can handle all those things better than Splitter, and those are all things that big men have to face consistently if they are looking to score points.
Depends on your definition of average. I think Splitter can be a high-end role player, not a star but thats not average to me either.average
Last edited by FkLA; 02-07-2013 at 04:30 PM.
Thats overplayed and misunderstood tbh. I said that fully expecting Diaw to return to top form (or close to) since he was in a great situation in SA. A top form Diaw being better than Lee is not a ridiculous statement. Its not like I still say that now that Ive seen that hes complacent with being a fatass.
Point apparently is missed. But I shouldn't expect less from a Spurs knobslobber, and UTSA dropout.
Oh okay, gotcha. So basically AJ > Splitter. Not to mention, this is an off year for AJ compared to what he usually does.
So you haven't shown me how Splitter is > AJ in any of those categories, as you said he would be. I assume you will point to their FG%, but then when you take into account the types of buckets Splitter gets (finishing mostly off of pick and rolls), and the buckets that Jefferson has to get (creating his own shot), I think that debunks that myth. Plus there are plenty of other things to take into consideration, such as the fact that Splitters TO% is double AJs, his usage % is considerably lower, and assist % is lower as well.
So being able to dribble through traffic, and protect the ball has nothing to do with ball handling?
great ing logic
When Diaw plays to his absolute top potential, then I can see him being COMPARABLE to Lee at best. He has more offensive talent, but that's about where it ends.
I know Diaw has plenty of talent, but you seriously think he is going to max it out, after being a lazy, injury prone fatass his whole career?
Lee is basically a 20/10 guy. Diaw has never sniffed those numbers, so I don't know what makes you think that returning to "top form" would mean he could top that. He would have to do a lot more than return to top form. He would have to surpass his previous level of play by A LOT.
Im still enrolled tbh. I didnt miss your 'point' either I just thought it was stupid and irrelevant.
I assumed Splitters bpg would be better without doing the calculations or bothering to look up the per 36 stats. They ended up being the same. Pretty sure that counts as a minimal advantage though, same with the other numbers. For your other point, check your stats--60% of Als FGs this season have been on jumpshots. 60% of those have been assisted. Dont act like he continually goes one on one in the post.Oh okay, gotcha. So basically AJ > Splitter. Not to mention, this is an off year for AJ compared to what he usually does.
So you haven't shown me how Splitter is > AJ in any of those categories, as you said he would be. I assume you will point to their FG%, but then when you take into account the types of buckets Splitter gets (finishing mostly off of pick and rolls), and the buckets that Jefferson has to get (creating his own shot), I think that debunks that myth. Plus there are plenty of other things to take into consideration, such as the fact that Splitters TO% is double AJs, his usage % is considerably lower, and assist % is lower as well.
Check previous post after the edit.So being able to dribble through traffic, and protect the ball has nothing to do with ball handling?
Well, at least this is a closer discussion rather than that beautiful argument.
Spurs are gonna try to resign Splitter but there's no guarantee some scrub organization (lol Rockets) will throw out $20 million for 5 years at him. AJ would be a good backup option and it wouldn't be hard to persuade him to come here; he practically switched out his gatorade for Duncan's sperm in the playoffs last year.
TRUTH BOMB ! lol.Not as funny as how Mitch Kupcake (and Lakerfan) thinks that buying all the biggest names guarantees chemistry and success
timvpimp whats your opinion of the golden god ?
I think people are giving Pop's system too much credit. It took him years to find players like Splitter, Leonard and Green (not Neal, though, because he had Mason before that). They are a big reason why the Spurs' ceiling instantly jumped when they got more playing time. We've seen what happens when Pop has to run his system with less-capable players like Mason, Bogans and pretty much every big before McDyess. Pop can't just transform bad players into good. Green's averaged the same per 36 numbers every year he's been in the league. Splitter and Leonard were both lottery talents.
I don't disagree that these players may not have been as productive as they are now in a different system, but that's true with every player in the league. Lakers fans should know all about systems making good players look bad (Howard and especially Gasol) and "scrubs" look good (Clark, Goudelock and Ebanks at various points). Utah's system has allowed Jefferson to put up his numbers, and San Antonio's has allowed Splitter to put up his. I don't think Jefferson puts up Splitter's numbers for the Spurs unless Pop completely reworks his system. So who cares who's better in a vacuum?
So after Diaw > lee. We have now spurs fans who wouldn't trade Splitter for Al J
He'd be a bad fit at the moment.So after Diaw > lee. We have now spurs fans who wouldn't trade Splitter for Al J
Like I said before, Spurs need scoring wing who can create his own shot.
A bad fit how ? If you have a shot at landing a guy like Al for this price (splitter). You do it.
talented players always find a way to contribute and to fit (well except for the lakers) and don't tell me that clever guys like pop, Tim, Manu and tp won't be able to play with Al Jefferson. Oh and
al jefferson is a glorfied carl landry imho. a nice role player but not the right material to make a franchise player. dude is undersized for his position and his D is not much better than average tbh
there's absolutely no doubt AJ is the better player than splitter as an individual and he would contribute more to the spurs if he became a spur despite him not fitting spurs system as good as splitter. spurs are relatively thin in the paint so a beefy big won't be a bad thing to add to their squad. the question is if this undersized is worth what the spurs are about to give up for him. will give your another scoring option at the offensive end but he's not likely to improve your D by any means. spurs would be a threat to us heat if they had a quality rebounder & shot blocker playing alongside duncan tbh. you can't expect the 36yr old to do everything on both ends of the floor
3rd worst defender in the NBA.A bad fit how ? If you have a shot at landing a guy like Al for this price (splitter). You do it.
talented players always find a way to contribute and to fit (well except for the lakers) and don't tell me that clever guys like pop, Tim, Manu and tp won't be able to play with Al Jefferson. Oh and
Yeah sure
Isn't all the talk of dealing Al happening so the jazz clear up their front court? If so what would picking up Tiago accomplish?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
